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Can anyone help please.... marriage certificate of my Gt Gt Grandfather states William Martin age 20 Bachelor a Waiter Father James Martin a Mason (deceased). He married in Manchester in 1903.

I was always told he was born in Aberdeen, his death record in WW1 states POB Aberdeen, 1911 Census shows him also born Aberdeen...only problem is i can't find William and James on a census, have tried all areas of Scotland not just Aberdeen....can anyone help with any information please.

Nudge up... anyone any ideas?

For interest: Could this be William Martin. Occupation, Barman.

1901 England Census
about William H Martin
Name: William H Martin
Age: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1883
Relation: Stepson
Gender: Male
Where born: Scotland

Civil parish: South Manchester
Ecclesiastical parish: Hulme St John the Baptist
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image

Registration district: Chorlton
Sub-registration district: Hulme
ED, institution, or vessel: 23
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 175
Household Members:
Name Age
Sarah J Herbert 37
William H Martin 18
Robert H Martin 16
Elizabeth A Martin 8
Ethel Herbert 3
Grace Taylor 18
William Taylor 64

Thank you I did see that one Helen, but if he's Sarah Herberts Stepson surely her name would be Martin, or am I getting myself confused, been going round in circles all day. I am told by family that his family stayed in Scotland, they had land there and sent money down for his widow, but his father is deceased by 1903, so not sure when or where he died, I'm all out of ideas.... William's occupation that i know of was 1902 Waiter from MC, 1904 Window Cleaner from childs BC, 1911 Electrician from Census .... It's just linking him to James, have checked 1891 and 1901, no sign of them together. Hopefully someone elses input will help me :o)

On Scotlandspeople:

There are 6 matches for a birth for William Martin in Aberdeen.

1881 - 1885

Unfortunately, you would need to check these in order to try and find his father, James.

Could work out quite expensive at £6 for 30 credits
1 credit to view the index
5 credits to view the certificate.

Thanks Helen, I have checked about 5 on census's but none of them show a James as Mason, or following through incase he changed profession, his wife as a widow, I think i am going to have to wait until pay day and go threw all of the births on Scotlands People, I will have to check that site out.

Does it show deaths? I wonder if i could find a death for James I could phone up the records office and ask them to see if any were Masons. I wonder what kind of mason he was?

I've just tried searching the William and Robert from that census back, only match i can find is 1891 Liverpool, says Robert was born Liverpool and William Fufeshire Scotland, Mother Frances Widow born Fufeshire Scotland. I don't know Scotland well, could Fufeshire be a place in Aberdeen? The ages are out for them though that is not unusual. I'm going to try to find Frances in 1881 see if she is with a James. Do you think it could be them? He did marry 1903 Chorlton on the Medlock and the 1901 shows him in Chorlton Hulme, Hulme being the place his bride was born... maybe that 1901 is him?

Scotlandspeople show births marriages and deaths.

The surname Martin being very common, makes searching difficult and expensive.

Had another look at the census and for 1901, the only William Martin born Scotland is the one already listed.

1901 in Scotland does not show a William Martin born in Aberdeen for the approx birth year given.

What about this for 1881 .... occupation Mason


1881 Scotland Census
about James Martin
Name: James Martin
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relationship: Son
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Jane Wilson
Gender: Male
Where born: Kinnethmont, Aberdeenshire
Registration Number: 168/2
Registration district: Old Machar
Civil parish: Old Machar
County: Aberdeenshire
Address: 89 Claremont St.
Occupation: Granite Stone Mason Jour.
ED: 23
Household schedule number: 111½
Line: 3
Roll: cssct1881_53
Household Members:
Name Age
John Martin 58
Jane Wilson Martin 55
Ann B Martin 29
James Martin 23
Jane Martin 21
Alexander Martin 12

For Fufeshire .... read: Fifeshire. Nowhere near Aberdeen.

I could end up spending thousands haha Great this History Lark isn't it haha

That looks very interesting Helen, I'm thinking that's one i can try to trace forward and see where it goes, have tried all other possibles, can't find that other one i was tracing back, Frances dissapears and i'm sure born 1840 she'd have had children born earlier, I feel like a headless chicken haha I tought that one may be Fifeshire, I wish i knew Scotland better, i'd have more idea of what i was looking for.

What are William's childrens names.

Scottish people tended to name their children after their parents.

Maybe could find William's mother's name in among his daughters ... if he had any.

Helen his children were oldest to youngest Janet (did find a William christened to a James and Janet but someone has them on IGI and they aren't mine i don't think and i don't think the area was right) Elizabeth (or Lizzie as they always called her) Mary, William, Ethel, then Violet and Marguerite twins.

BTW I do appreciate the help, thanks, i'm driving myself mad so it's nice to get someone else's ideas, you never know you just may crack this for me :o)

I had a spare credit for Scotlandspeople: Here are the births for William Martin born between 1880 and 1885. According to the age given on William's marriage certificate it could be c.1883 ... give or take a few years.

No Year Surname Forename Sex District City/County/MR GROS Data Image Extract
1 1881 MARTIN WILLIAM M OLD MACHAR ABERDEEN CITY/ABERDEEN 168/02 1512 VIEW
2 1883 MARTIN WILLIAM M LUMPHANAN /ABERDEEN 220/00 0004
3 1883 MARTIN WILLIAM M OLD MACHAR ABERDEEN CITY/ABERDEEN 168/02 0093
4 1886 MARTIN WILLIAM M ABERDEEN OLD MACHAR ABERDEEN CITY/ABERDEEN 168/02
5 1886 MARTIN WILLIAM M ST NICHOLAS ABERDEEN CITY/ABERDEEN 168/01 0675
6 1884 MARTIN WILLIAM ALEXAND M OLD MACHAR ABERDEEN CITY/ABERDEEN 168/02 0095
7 1886 MARTIN WILLIAM ALEXAND M PETERHEAD /ABERDEEN 232/01 0430 VIEW
8 1885 MARTIN WILLIAM ALLAN G M OLD MACHAR ABERDEEN CITY/ABERDEEN 168/02 0890
9 1880 MARTIN WILLIAM CLARK M ST NICHOLAS ABERDEEN CITY/ABERDEEN 168/01 1052 VIEW
10 1880 MARTIN WILLIAM LAING M COULL /ABERDEEN 182/00 0002
11 1885 MARTIN WILLIAM SINCLAI M ST NICHOLAS ABERDEEN CITY/ABERDEEN 168/01 1586

Helen, thanks so much, you're a gem, there's two that i think could be him the 1881 and 1883 one, all evidence so far points to those years, he was 2 years younger then his wife, her birth is registered 1880 so depending when his birthday was he could be 1881 or 1883, i'm deffinately going to have to get credits on Scotlands people when i have some money, hopefully one of those is born to a James, I hope so or i'm going to end up in an asylum haha

Faye,

Hopefully one of these will turn out to be your William.

Keep me posted on the outcome.

Good luck.
Helen

Will do Helen, have just checked the 1881 he's on 1891 as Grandchild to an Annie Herd, would i need a credit to search for a marriage of James to a Herd?

Going to see if i can find the 1883 one and what info that will bring me, thanks for the leads though :o)

I saw that census earlier but wasn't sure if it was relevant

Scotlandspeople:

There is a James Martin married ? Herd. (not Ann or Annie)
also not in Aberdeen. The marriage was after 1900.

Drat, there goes that lead, thought maybe he had married a Herd, and can't trace the 1883 one, back to square one, will try end of the month and get credits to see what those births say, i'm begining to wonder if he made this James up haha Thanks for the help :o)

I was thinking the same thing. Unfortunately, you can't always rely on the information given in certificates.

If William's father died when he was a young boy, he may well not have known his father's name or memory played tricks on him.

This is not uncommon and I have several instances of this happening in my own research.

It's starting to look that way, unless i get a miracle!!!

Strange though, Nan always said they had money and sent money down to his widow for her children, you'd think there would be something somewhere :o( Only other thing i know is he had sisters, what there names were Nan couldn't remember, and now she's passed i can't ask anyone :o(

I think the best you can hope for is either finding a birth certificate with the name James as father .... or another father's name with an occupation given as Mason.

I wouldn't dismiss the earlier census showing Sarah Herbert as Step-mother. She has a daughter, Ethel and I notice there is an Ethel in among William's daughters. Maybe this is clutching at straws but I'd keep it on the back burner as a possible.

There is no sign of a birth for Ethel Herbert .... but, there is an Ethel Martin born 1899 in Manchester.

Ethel Martin
Dec qtr 1899
Manchester
8d 241

wonder if she could be a daughter to James Martin and sister to William ... as well as the other sister, Elizabeth, mentioned on the census. With regards to Sarah Herbert not being called Martin, one of my Gt grandmothers reverted back to her maiden name when she was widowed although her children are on the same census under their father's name.