Find Ancestors

hi everyone, this is my first post on here so bear with me if i waffle.

ok my grandfather was FRANCIS BUMPAS or so i thought,
i have found his death records in 1965 and his marraige in 1914 ( but his Marriage records show him as BUMPUS not BUMPAS) but on the 1891 and 1901census i cant find him at all or in any birth records, i have asked family about him but the only info they have is his date of birth 1889 and his name was FRANCIS.

So can anyone give me some idea's on how to find his birth and therefore his family


thanks

alan rudd

1891 England Census
about Francis Bumpas
Name: Francis Bumpas
Age: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Richard
Mother's Name: Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Birmingham

Civil parish: Aston
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
Town: Bordesley
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England

Registration district: Aston
Sub-registration district: Deritend
ED, institution, or vessel: 31
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Richard Bumpas 37
Ann Bumpas 38
Francis Bumpas 17


Is this him

x

1871 England Census
about Francis Bumpas
Name: Francis Bumpas
Age: 6
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Richard
Mother's Name: Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Birmingham
Civil parish: Kings Norton
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
County/Island: Worcestershire
Country: England
Registration district: Kings Norton
Sub-registration district: Kings Norton
ED, institution, or vessel: 12a
Household schedule number: 241
Household Members: Name Age
Richard Bumpas 43
Ann Bumpas 39
William Bumpas 11
Francis Bumpas 6

There seems to be a variation in dob

1881 England Census
about Francis Bumpus
Name: Francis Bumpus
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1866
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Richard
Mother's Name: Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Birmingham

Civil parish: Aston
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England

Street Address: 2 Baker Street
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Errand Boy

Registration district: Aston
Sub-registration district: Deritend
ED, institution, or vessel: 74
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Richard Bumpus 53
Ann Bumpus 49
William Bumpus 21
Francis Bumpus 15


x

Theres this too. Can you have a look through the info and see if you can filter anything in or out

UK Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960
about Francis Bumpus
Name: Francis Bumpus
Port of Departure: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Arrival Date: 11 Jul 1908
Port of Arrival: Southampton, England
Ports of Voyage: Buenos Aires, Santos, Bahia, Leixã¶Es, Pernambuco, St Vincent, Vigo, Montevideo and Rio de Janeiro
Ship Name: Danube
Search Ship Database: View the 'Danube' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping Line: The Royal Mail Steam Packet Company
Official Number: 102868

x

His marriage cert will give you his age and his father I would have thought.
£7 from the GRO.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Sep 1914 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BUMPUS Francis Tandy Aston 6d 956

The only 2 possible births for him on,,freebmd,,between 1900 and 1860


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Dec 1865 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bumpus Francis King's N. 6c 399

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Mar 1876 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bumpus Francis Henry Hackney 1b _09

The death record in question, from the GRO image at Ancestry:

jan-feb-mar 1965
Bumpas, Francis
age 75
Birmingham 9c 395


So that would make him born early 1890, or later 1889 (if he hadn't yet had his 76th birthday in 1965).

However, it is also a nice round number, 75, and could have been a guesstimate. It could also have been whatever the family member who reported the death believed.

If he'd been born in 1865 or 1876, he would have been really very old -- 100 or 89 -- when he died. And rather less likely to have married in 1914 and had children.

Alan, are you going to get this marriage certificate? That is the first, essential document you need, to see at least what he declared his age and father's name to be.


Alan is new. I'll PM him instructions for returning to the thread etc.

1891

Name: Frank James Bumpus
Age: 2
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1889
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Sarah
Where born: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

Civil parish: Aston
County/Island: Warwickshire

William Bumpus 32
Sarah Bumpus 25
Frank James Bumpus 2


That would be my bet!


Cute:

Births Sep 1889
Pumbus Francis James Aston 6d 237


Just a little backwards. ;)

(That's the only GRO entry for "Pumbus" -- and that is indeed what it says in the GRO index; not a typo by a FreeBMD transcriber. I found it at FreeBMD it just by searching for Frank James and Francis James, no surname, born in Warwickshire, 1888-89.)


But -- you still need the marriage certificate so you have the father's name for confirmation!

Frank James son of William Bumpus and Laura Alice wilkinson married A/M/J 1889.On 1891 census says mum Sarah,this is wrong it looks like Laura on original.
William son of richard and ann ,William had brother francis 1865.

Francis james 1889 had a sister Sarah ann 1892-1974 in tree on Ancestry.
Maryb

Hi everyone

Thank you all for your fast responses i was amazed when i looked to see how many of you replied.

I have seen most of the suggestions and dont think it is him so i am going to get his marraige certificate as suggested and try that route, but once again thanks for all your help.

alan rudd

Alan.
Do not be alarmed at names being mistranscribed. Even certificates can get it wrong
I have one birth cert from GRO where my grandmothers name is transcribed as Constant . I thought it was a typing error till I got her cert and it says that. They even got her sex wrong.

My other grandmothers birth cert is transcribed and says Florence Mary. Her middle name was May.

These are not the only names mistranscribed. I took a chance on a death cert in 1856 before they had ages on the index. It had an unusual double surname ( also mistranscribed). that closely resembled my gt grandfathers name.
It was transcribed as Mary and I was expecting it to be the wife of a brother to gt granddad .
It was for a 10 month old. On closer examination I realised the name was Mercy and the same parents as gt granddad. So she was a baby sister I never knew about. The writing was difficult to read but I found her birth ( mistranscribed) the year before so it all fitted.

Local reg offices sent their records every 3 months to GRO and its possible errors would occur at this time especially with difficult writing

Uh, you don't think "it" is him?

Did you notice there is more than one "it" in this thread?

The person I found, in the census as Frank James Bumpus with parents William and Sarah, born in 1889 and registered as Francis James Pumbus, matches your specs exactly.

Your grandfather died in Birmingham with an age stated that made him born 1889/1890. The person I found was born in the latter half of 1889 in Birmingham and lived in Birmingham with his parents. Why would that not be him?? Nobody else seems to be him!

"Pumbus" is not a name. (There is not a single other birth, marriage or death in that name in the GRO index.) It is an obvious error either by the registrar on the certificate or by whoever transcribed it into the GRO index.

Do come back to the thread when you have the marriage certificate! Of course you need that to confirm any theory anyway.

An interesting death:

Deaths Jun 1894
BUMPUS Francis age:27 Birmingham 6d 137

He's one of the others mentioned in this thread. His brother William is the father of the person I'm suggesting is your grandfather; in 1881:

Richard Bumpus 53
Ann Bumpus 49
William Bumpus 21 (aged 32 in 1891)
Francis Bumpus 15


I can't find Francis/Frank James Bumpus 1889 in 1901 or 1911. I also can't find a marriage for William Bump* + Sarah. There's a marriage for a William Bumpus in Aston in second quarter 1889, but to a Laura or an Esther -- and there is no such couple in 1891. I wonder whether Sarah had partnered with someone else by 1901 and that Francis/Frank James Bumpus is in the census under his stepfather's surname.

There are also two interesting births (for which there are no deaths):

Births Dec 1892
Bumpus Sarah Ann Aston 6d 215

Births Jun 1895
Bumpas Herbert Aston 6d 261

Can't find them in 1901 or 1911 either.


Start with the marriage cert -- we'll be eagerly awaiting it!

In the thread, Alan, pleeeeease, in the thread.


Your PM:

I have now got the marriage certificate and his fathers name was william and as your answer above looks correct can you tell me how and where you found this, as i have been searching for william / sarah / francis or frank bumpus on the census for different years and cant find them, and i really need to find another source or entry to confirm this is correct so i can go back from there etc, any help would be appreciated.


I dunnit as I said above:

>> I found it at FreeBMD it just by searching for Frank James and Francis James, no surname, born in Warwickshire, 1888-89.

Fortunately we had a fairly certain place and narrow date range.

I just scanned down the list of results for FRANCIS JAMES births, and there was PUMBUS staring at me, and I thought, not likely. ;)

So - she shoots, she scores, again!

The 1891 census is on page 1. Mary thought the mother's name, Sarah, looked like Laura in the original. I definitely don't agree; it's Sarah.

Do you not think that is them?

Mary also said:

>> Frank James son of William Bumpus and Laura Alice wilkinson married A/M/J 1889.

i.e. William and Laura Alice Wilkinson married in 1889. I believe she got that record at Ancestry in a database I don't have access to; I never know, when a source isn't given. Maybe it's a tree on Ancestry?

This is the marriage:

Marriages Jun 1889
> Bumpus William Aston 6d 370
Shipway Esther Ellen Aston 6d 370
Whitehouse Edwin James Aston 6d 370
> WILKINSON Laura Aston 6d 370

That's the quarter after Frank's birth was registered. So that's a discrepancy, but it could well be the 1891 census that is wrong re Sarah/Laura.

There's no Laura Alice Wilkinson birth in the GRO to match.

But this seems to be her in 1881, and the specs match 1891:

Name: Laura Wilkinson
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1866
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Sarah
Where born: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

Actually, could you just give the info - parents' names - from the "Pumbus" certificate? And, it does really say Bumpus?

Oh -- you haven't got that birth certificate? I certainly would!

For info, this seems to be father William's death:

Deaths Sep 1928
Bumpas William age:69 Birmingham S. 6d 205
(dob c1859 as in the censuses)

If we could find a death for Laura/Sarah, we might confirm her name, but she seems to have lived long and her death seems not to be transcribed yet.

... Or if we could find them in the 1901 or 1911 census, but I draw blanks there.

Is this possible for one of the others


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Jun 1920 (58%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------Apperley Frederick W ___pas Aston 6d 1177
------Bumpas Sarah A Apperley Aston 6d 1177
Dove Ethel Shelcher Aston 6d 1177

Also three children listed later but could still be living so not putting details on.

na, na, na, na,

I FOUND THEM 1911.

BUMFORD, William Head Married
22 years M 52 1859 Window Cleaner England VIEW
BUMFORD, Laura Wife Married F 46 1865 England VIEW
BUMFORD, Frank Son M 22 1889 Clearke England VIEW
BUMFORD, Sarah Daughter F 19 1892 Laundries England VIEW
BUMFORD, Herbert Son M 16 1895 Grocers Assistant England VIEW
BUMFORD, Florence Daughter F 7 1904 School England VIEW
BUMFORD, Richard Relation M 84 1827 Pensioner

Well. I did search for BUM*, BU*, B*S, and anything else like that. It just didn't occur to me that it would be that badly recorded/transcribed.

You gonna use your famous sub to look at the image? (For Alan: subscribers' use of images is very limited, so it would be a special favour to do that.)


I've PMed Alan to return.

Address:
17 Bertram Road Small Heath Birmingham

Nobody will like this but it does say ,,Bumford,,I cant really read it as anything else,try as I might.

All else is the same as transcription.

5 children born,5 living.

Edit...Image sent to you Janey so you can disagree if you think other on the surname.

????
1901 England Census
about Frank Bumford
Name: Frank Bumford
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1890
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William
Gender: Male
Where born: Birmingham

Civil parish: Aston


William Bumford 41 <<<married,,labourer
Frank Bumford 11
Laura Bumford 6
Richard Bumford 8
Edward Bumford 73 <<overwritten on image
Herbert Bumford 16