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Maybe Alan is another one of your cousins JC ;)

Well, there never was any news, but I just got a tree access request from Alan ..............

Just wondering whether there's any news!

Ah ... used to be. Now I get my kicks at GenesReunited, not the courthouse anymore ...

One thing you do know when you practise law -- there is never actually *proof* of anything! There are a whole lot of facts that pile up and make it impossible for something to be anything other than what it appears to be. ;)

Now you know why Janeys a lawyer

Well said Janey,I couldnt have argued the case better myself...
my ,I wish I had your way with the words!

I'm still wondering too what Alan isn't following!


William Bumpus had father Richard and brother Francis.

Marriages Jun 1889
Bumpus William Aston 6d 370
WILKINSON Laura Aston 6d 370

Births Sep 1889
Pumbus Francis James Aston 6d 237

1891
Frank James Bumpus 2
William Bumpus 32
- labourer
Sarah Bumpus 25
- the first letter in Sarah looks like the L in Labourer on the page, not like the S in Samuel, so it could be read as Larah. (I should have looked at this further originally -- it definitely does not say Laura, but it pretty definitely does say Larah, not Sarah.)


The people in 1891 - your people - match up with the household Viv has found in 1901 and 1911 as Bumford.

In the 1911 Bumford household, note "relation" Richard, aged 84. William's father was Richard. In 1911, Richard is 84. In 1861, Richard (transcribed Bumpers at Ancestry) was 33. In 1871, he was 43. DOB ~1828. They are the same Richard, in 1861, 1871 and 1911. Father of your William and William's brother Francis. William named his sons for his brother and father.

In 1911 the Bumford couple had been married 22 years -- the Bumpus-Wilkinson marriage was registered in Jun quarter 1889, so they could have just had their 22nd or been about to have their 22nd anniversary.

In 1911, Frank Bumford is a window cleaner, as he was in 1901. In 1891, Frank Bumpus was a labourer. By 1891 he had specialized. He was likely not literate. The census household schedules were likely completed by the enumerator. (I wonder whether the schedules for neighbouring households in 1911 were in the same handwriting?)

Why were they Bumford in 1901 and 1911? Who knows?? These things *did* happen.

There just wasn't a Bumford household in 1891 with parents William and Laura and son Frank, to account for them. There is no William Bumford marriage to a Laura. These *are* the Bumpus family.

And there isn't a Bumpus/Bumpas household in 1901 or 1911 to be your family. The two are mutually exclusive. The Bumpus household appears only in 1891, the Bumford household appears only in 1901 and 1911. They are one and the same. There's no issue!


Alan, you still haven't ordered the two certificates for the birth and marriage at the top of this post?

They will surely answer your questions.

The William Bumpus + Laura Wilkinson marriage will show father Richard.

The Frank James Pumbus birth certificate will show parents William Bumpus (or Pumbus) and Laura Wilkinson.


There's no need to struggle, let alone give up.

Buy the certificates and congratulate us!

Looks like you 'nailed' it with the 1901/1911 Viv, well done hun

Alan have you missed that info as you still seem to be in the dark about the Bumpas family?

Ginny
x

BUMFORD, William Head Married
22 years M 52 1859 Window Cleaner England <<<<<<<<<
BUMFORD, Laura Wife Married F 46 1865 England
BUMFORD, Frank Son M 22 1889 Clearke England
BUMFORD, Sarah Daughter F 19 1892 Laundries England
BUMFORD, Herbert Son M 16 1895 Grocers Assistant England
BUMFORD, Florence Daughter F 7 1904 School England
BUMFORD, Richard Relation M 84 1827 Pensioner

Address:
17 Bertram Road Small Heath Birmingham


I rest my case that this is the family on 1911 and therefore 1901 as well.
But you can only lead a horse to water....

Hi All

Info we have so far

INFO FROM FAMILY ............

FRANCIS BUMPAS date of birth 30.06.01889 (spelt with an A )
-------------
died january 1965 aged 75
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

INFO ON MARRAIGE CERTIFICATE .................

date of marraige 02.08.1914 at all saints church ,small heath, birmingham

FRANCIS BUMPUS ( spelt with a U ) AGE 25 PACKER address ... 62 waverley rd small heath birmingham
FATHER WILLIAM BUMPUS WINDOW CLEANER

WIFE

BEATRICE TANDY AGE 23 PRESS WORKER address .......
62 waverley rd small heath birmingham
FATHER HENRY TANDY FILE CUTTER

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WITNESSES HENRY TANDY (brother) and a GERTRUDE BROOKES ( presume was friend

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

before and since we got this info we have done searches and although we have an extensive family tree for the tandy family we are still struggling with the bumpus family

my best guess would be the post from Janey ............

Name: Frank James Bumpus
Age: 2
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1889
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Sarah
Where born: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

Civil parish: Aston
County/Island: Warwickshire

William Bumpus 32
Sarah Bumpus 25
Frank James Bumpus 2


But when we we searched for WILLIAM BUMPUS AND SARAH we yet again are struggling still we wont give up and will let you all know any further developments and thanks for your posts much appreaciated

alan rudd

????
1901 England Census
about Frank Bumford
Name: Frank Bumford
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1890
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William
Gender: Male
Where born: Birmingham

Civil parish: Aston


William Bumford 41 <<<married,,labourer
Frank Bumford 11
Laura Bumford 6
Richard Bumford 8
Edward Bumford 73 <<overwritten on image
Herbert Bumford 16

Address:
17 Bertram Road Small Heath Birmingham

Nobody will like this but it does say ,,Bumford,,I cant really read it as anything else,try as I might.

All else is the same as transcription.

5 children born,5 living.

Edit...Image sent to you Janey so you can disagree if you think other on the surname.

Well. I did search for BUM*, BU*, B*S, and anything else like that. It just didn't occur to me that it would be that badly recorded/transcribed.

You gonna use your famous sub to look at the image? (For Alan: subscribers' use of images is very limited, so it would be a special favour to do that.)


I've PMed Alan to return.

na, na, na, na,

I FOUND THEM 1911.

BUMFORD, William Head Married
22 years M 52 1859 Window Cleaner England VIEW
BUMFORD, Laura Wife Married F 46 1865 England VIEW
BUMFORD, Frank Son M 22 1889 Clearke England VIEW
BUMFORD, Sarah Daughter F 19 1892 Laundries England VIEW
BUMFORD, Herbert Son M 16 1895 Grocers Assistant England VIEW
BUMFORD, Florence Daughter F 7 1904 School England VIEW
BUMFORD, Richard Relation M 84 1827 Pensioner

Is this possible for one of the others


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Jun 1920 (58%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------Apperley Frederick W ___pas Aston 6d 1177
------Bumpas Sarah A Apperley Aston 6d 1177
Dove Ethel Shelcher Aston 6d 1177

Also three children listed later but could still be living so not putting details on.

For info, this seems to be father William's death:

Deaths Sep 1928
Bumpas William age:69 Birmingham S. 6d 205
(dob c1859 as in the censuses)

If we could find a death for Laura/Sarah, we might confirm her name, but she seems to have lived long and her death seems not to be transcribed yet.

... Or if we could find them in the 1901 or 1911 census, but I draw blanks there.

In the thread, Alan, pleeeeease, in the thread.


Your PM:

I have now got the marriage certificate and his fathers name was william and as your answer above looks correct can you tell me how and where you found this, as i have been searching for william / sarah / francis or frank bumpus on the census for different years and cant find them, and i really need to find another source or entry to confirm this is correct so i can go back from there etc, any help would be appreciated.


I dunnit as I said above:

>> I found it at FreeBMD it just by searching for Frank James and Francis James, no surname, born in Warwickshire, 1888-89.

Fortunately we had a fairly certain place and narrow date range.

I just scanned down the list of results for FRANCIS JAMES births, and there was PUMBUS staring at me, and I thought, not likely. ;)

So - she shoots, she scores, again!

The 1891 census is on page 1. Mary thought the mother's name, Sarah, looked like Laura in the original. I definitely don't agree; it's Sarah.

Do you not think that is them?

Mary also said:

>> Frank James son of William Bumpus and Laura Alice wilkinson married A/M/J 1889.

i.e. William and Laura Alice Wilkinson married in 1889. I believe she got that record at Ancestry in a database I don't have access to; I never know, when a source isn't given. Maybe it's a tree on Ancestry?

This is the marriage:

Marriages Jun 1889
> Bumpus William Aston 6d 370
Shipway Esther Ellen Aston 6d 370
Whitehouse Edwin James Aston 6d 370
> WILKINSON Laura Aston 6d 370

That's the quarter after Frank's birth was registered. So that's a discrepancy, but it could well be the 1891 census that is wrong re Sarah/Laura.

There's no Laura Alice Wilkinson birth in the GRO to match.

But this seems to be her in 1881, and the specs match 1891:

Name: Laura Wilkinson
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1866
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Sarah
Where born: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

Actually, could you just give the info - parents' names - from the "Pumbus" certificate? And, it does really say Bumpus?

Oh -- you haven't got that birth certificate? I certainly would!

Uh, you don't think "it" is him?

Did you notice there is more than one "it" in this thread?

The person I found, in the census as Frank James Bumpus with parents William and Sarah, born in 1889 and registered as Francis James Pumbus, matches your specs exactly.

Your grandfather died in Birmingham with an age stated that made him born 1889/1890. The person I found was born in the latter half of 1889 in Birmingham and lived in Birmingham with his parents. Why would that not be him?? Nobody else seems to be him!

"Pumbus" is not a name. (There is not a single other birth, marriage or death in that name in the GRO index.) It is an obvious error either by the registrar on the certificate or by whoever transcribed it into the GRO index.

Do come back to the thread when you have the marriage certificate! Of course you need that to confirm any theory anyway.

An interesting death:

Deaths Jun 1894
BUMPUS Francis age:27 Birmingham 6d 137

He's one of the others mentioned in this thread. His brother William is the father of the person I'm suggesting is your grandfather; in 1881:

Richard Bumpus 53
Ann Bumpus 49
William Bumpus 21 (aged 32 in 1891)
Francis Bumpus 15


I can't find Francis/Frank James Bumpus 1889 in 1901 or 1911. I also can't find a marriage for William Bump* + Sarah. There's a marriage for a William Bumpus in Aston in second quarter 1889, but to a Laura or an Esther -- and there is no such couple in 1891. I wonder whether Sarah had partnered with someone else by 1901 and that Francis/Frank James Bumpus is in the census under his stepfather's surname.

There are also two interesting births (for which there are no deaths):

Births Dec 1892
Bumpus Sarah Ann Aston 6d 215

Births Jun 1895
Bumpas Herbert Aston 6d 261

Can't find them in 1901 or 1911 either.


Start with the marriage cert -- we'll be eagerly awaiting it!

Alan.
Do not be alarmed at names being mistranscribed. Even certificates can get it wrong
I have one birth cert from GRO where my grandmothers name is transcribed as Constant . I thought it was a typing error till I got her cert and it says that. They even got her sex wrong.

My other grandmothers birth cert is transcribed and says Florence Mary. Her middle name was May.

These are not the only names mistranscribed. I took a chance on a death cert in 1856 before they had ages on the index. It had an unusual double surname ( also mistranscribed). that closely resembled my gt grandfathers name.
It was transcribed as Mary and I was expecting it to be the wife of a brother to gt granddad .
It was for a 10 month old. On closer examination I realised the name was Mercy and the same parents as gt granddad. So she was a baby sister I never knew about. The writing was difficult to read but I found her birth ( mistranscribed) the year before so it all fitted.

Local reg offices sent their records every 3 months to GRO and its possible errors would occur at this time especially with difficult writing

Hi everyone

Thank you all for your fast responses i was amazed when i looked to see how many of you replied.

I have seen most of the suggestions and dont think it is him so i am going to get his marraige certificate as suggested and try that route, but once again thanks for all your help.

alan rudd