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I am looking for the marriage of David Robertson and Helen Duff, possibly Edinburgh about 1840-1845.
Their son David (c.1846) married Jemima Anderson in Edinburgh in 1867 and on their marriage cert, states David's parents were David Robertson and Helen Roberson (nee Duff).

I have found a couple of Robertson/Duff marriages:

David Robertson / Helen Robertson - Edinburgh 1839
David Robertson / Ann Duff - Dundee 1845
Donald Robertson / Helen Duff - Perth 1847
George Robertson / Helen Duff - Edinburgh 1850

Can anyone help at all please,i don't know where to go next !!
I have also looked for Davids birth (c.1846) believed to be in edinburgh, but no results.

Please help, getting desperate.

Robby.

Hi Robby,
Are these the children of your David & Jemima and did they have any more children? I know it's David & Helen you are looking for but it helps to know about the descendants.

International Genealogical Index - British Isles
76. HELEN ROBERTSON - International Genealogical Index / BI
Gender: Female Birth: 11 AUG 1871 Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland

77. GEORGE ROBERTSON - International Genealogical Index / BI
Gender: Male Birth: 05 MAR 1869 Edinburgh Parish, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland

78. GEORGINA ERSKINE ROBERTSON - International Genealogical Index / BI
Gender: Female Birth: 11 JAN 1873 Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland

Matches: International Genealogical Index/British Isles - 3

Regards
Kath

Hello Kath,

Thanks for your reply.

Yes, i have George 1869 and Georgina 1873 as David and Jemima's children.
Helen - i did not know about but there was also David 1876 and Margaret 1877, all born in Edinburgh.
I know that by 1881 David Snr was in London and the rest of the family had follows by 1891.

Regards, Robby

Have you found David on any census?

Robby

Were David's parents alive when he married? What was his father's occupation and what was his occupation at the time of the marriage please? Also what address did David give on his marriage certificate? This may help to find him on the 1851 census with his parents.

Here's Jemima in 1881 - but that doesn't help find David's parents. If his father was David then he hasn't used the Scottish naming pattern for his children.

Name: Jemima Robertson
Age: 33
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
Relationship: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Edinburgh, Midlothian
Registration Number: 685/1
Registration district: St George
Civil parish: Edinburgh St Cuthberts
County: Midlothian
Address: 31 Lady Lawson'S Wynd
Occupation: Mason'S Wife
ED: 14
Household schedule number: 69
Line: 6
Roll: cssct1881_280
Household Members: Name Age
Jemima Robertson 33
George Robertson 12
Georgina Robertson 8
David Robertson 5
Margaret Robertson 3

Come back Robby!

We need more information to help with this. There are loads of Robertsons in the Edinburgh area at that time - I know as other halfs family of Robertsons came from Leith but they were good enough to use the Scottish naming pattern and use maiden surnames as middle names.

Hello Hello Everybody,

Thank you all so much for the information and help you have given me.

Sorry i was logged of yesterday - had to go to work !! Unfortunately.

David Jnr and Jemima Anderson were married 5th July 1867 at 32 Gilmore Place, Edinburgh.
David age 21 , Mason (Journeyman) Batchelor - living 1 Brandfield St. Edinburgh -
Father David Robertson (deceased) Carter
Mother - Helen Robertson (Duff)
Jemima Anderson age 19 living 31 Lady Lawsons Wynd, Edinburgh, Domestic Servant.
Witnesses were George Corbett (unknown) and Helen Reid (Jemima's mother).
I have found David on the 1871 Scotland Cencus and 1881, 1891 England Cencus.

I have also looked for David Snrs. death, between 1843 and 1867 in Scotlands deaths, but can find nothing.

Am i hitting a dead end with with this one???

Many thanks,

robby.

Interesting that you haven't found David Senior's death yet but he may have died before 1855. Have you found Helen's death ? just wondering who the informant was. It would be helpful if it was a sibling of David Junior as this may make it a little easier to identify the family on the 1851 and 1861 census records

Hello Rootgatherer,

I have just tried to look for Helen's death, but not found yet.
She didn't go to England with her son.


You mentioned th Scottish naming pattern - what is this?
I cannot even find if David Jnr had any siblings.

Robby

I don't think you have hit a dead just yet.

There is this one on the 1851 census - but not very helpful.

Name: David Robertson
Age: 6
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845
Relationship: Pauper Boarder (Pauper)
Gender: Male
Where born: Edinbain, Midlothian
Parish Number: 693
Civil parish: Liberton
Town: Gilmerton
County: Midlothian
Address: Harpeisland
Occupation: Scholar
ED: 7
Page: 4 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 64
Line: 8
Roll: CSSCT1851_190
Household Members: Name Age
Matthew Suttie 48
Helen Suttie 49
Helen Suttie 21
Ann Suttie 13
James Suttie 10
Isabella Suttie 7
William Whitson 39
William Turnball 12
Peter Miller 10
John Allan 8
Thomas Anderson 8
David Robertson 6
Janet Goldie 2


This wee chappie may just have been fostered out on a temporary basis , if, for example his father had died and his mother was ill or unable to look after him.


I am also wondering if he named his son George and daughter georgina for the male witness at his wedding. Or was Jemima's father George?

Scottish naming pattern

First son named for paternal grandfather
Second son named for maternal grandfather (sometimes including his surname as a middle name)
Third son for the father

First daughter for the maternal grandmother (sometimes including either her married or maiden surname)
Second daughter for paternal grandmother (sometimes including her maiden surname)
Third daughter named for the mother.




EDIT

If you have search for Helen's death on scotlandspeople did you do it just using the two surnames? The problem with the name Helen (in Scotland anyway) is that her death could have been registered as Helen, Nellie, Ellen etc.

This might be the George that was a witness to the marriage. So it would appear that he was probably David's labourer?

Name: George Corbet
Age: 46
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1825
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Margaret
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland
Registration Number: 685/4
Registration district: St Giles
Civil parish: Edinburgh New North
Town: Edinburgh
County: Midlothian
Address: 116 Cowgate
Occupation: Masons Labourer
ED: 25
Household schedule number: 76
Line: 21
Roll: CSSCT1871_163
Household Members: Name Age
George Corbet 46
Margaret Corbet 48
Mary Corbet 15
Patrick Corbet 6



If that is the case it is looking as if David was either not in touch with his immediate family or he had none apart from his mother.

No, Jemima's father was John, mother also Helen.

The only family that seems to fit is George Robertson /m/ Helen Duff.
On the 1851 their first born is George, then Margaret, David & James but their marriage seems to have taken place in 1850 after all the children were born.
Although it seems quite unlikely, would this be possible???
George was a Carter and lived at 25 Potterow, Edinburgh.

Would the first born children be named after grandparents (as a general rule) David and Jemima's first born being George?
I saw the 1851 David who was a Pauper - thought the same, it is possible it could be him..

I have tried to forward to the 1861 cencus also, but no joy there either.

thanks for that info, i think you are right, he may not have had contact with his family.

I am trying a different tack with Jemima's parents and the other witness.

Got to go for a while.

Many thanks,

Robby

Hi Robby,
I've found a tree on Ancestry with the following details, unfortunately it says 'unsourced' but I feel it is worth checking out.

ROBERT ROBERTSON B. 1790C INVERESK MIDLOTHIAN
MARRIED ISABEL BENNET(B. 1793C) MARRIED 21/1/1815 (FROM IGI)
IN INVERESK.
ROBERT & ISABEL HAD DAVID ROBERTSON B. 18/6/1815 EDINBURGH.

DAVID ROBERTSON B. 1815 MARRIED HELEN DUFF 21/6/1836 ST.CUTHBERTS MIDLOTHIAN.
DAVID & HELEN HAD DAVID ROBERTSON B. 1846 EDINBURGH

DAVID ROBERTSON B. 1846 MARRIED JEMIMA ANDERSON 5/7/1867 EDINBURGH.
DAVID & JEMIMA HAD THE FOLLOWING CHILDREN:
GEORGE B. 1869
HELEN B. 1871
GEORGINA ERSKINE B. 1873
DAVID B. 1876
MARGARET B. 1877

DAVID ROBERTSON B. 1846 DIED IN 1908 CAMBERWELL (STONE MASON)

I think we should take a look at this information Robby, I'm sure that Rootgather will agree as they appear to have all your family members.

Regards
Kath

Robbie,
I think this is the marriage of David Robertson & Helen (Duff)

DAVID ROBERTSON Pedigree
Male Family


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
Death:
Burial:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages:
Spouse: HELEN ROBERTSON Family
Marriage: 21 JUN 1839 Saint Cuthberts, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland


Messages:
Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date.


Kath

Robby,
Could this possibly be David Robertson b. 1815 & his wife Helen in 1841?

David Robertson
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1816
Gender: Male
Where born: Scotland

Civil parish: Edinburgh Old Greyfriars
County: Midlothian
Address: Society No 10
Occupation: Joiner I
Parish Number: 685/1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
David Robertson 25
Helen Robertson 25
Elizabeth Robertson 6 Mo

Kath

I've been on scotsfind tonight and found David Robertson & Helen Robertson 14/6/1839 Inveresk (where David was born)
and again 21st June 1839 at St.Cuthberts.
Probably the one on 14th June was banns read in David's parish
and the 21st June the actual marriage date.

I have been wondering if Helen's name was actually
HELEN DUFF ROBERTSON.

Oh please Rootgatherer come back soon
Regards
Kath

Hi Folks

Yes this is all looking quite hopeful. If Helen was actually a Robertson who married a Robertson that may explain why Robby is not finding her death. He has almost certainly been looking for a Robertson / Duff death. I think we need her death certificate to get her details. That would help to tie in the census records found and we would see if she was of an age to be married in 1839.

I would still like to see where David junior got the George name for his son. It might be helpful too if we could find where the Erskine in Georgina's name comes from.