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Hi Derek,

I never take anything that I see on any trees as fact especially on A****y as there are some real doozies out there ....

I found one today with a Pakeman connection that had the father born 102 years before his supposed son ! I know that they breed 'em strong int' country but thats an awful lot of viagra :-D :-D :-D :-D

I look forward to hearing what you think about the Carsingtonbranch of the Pakeman family query.

Thanks once again

Barbara

(Hi Barbara, I know this isn't my thread but just wanted to say that you made me laugh out loud with your last post! Anne :-) )

Hi Derek and Barbara,

The parents of William Pakeman born 1775 are Francis and Mary.
Then William and Ann have a daughter at Sutton called Ann bapt 1798.
Then they have children baptised at Carsington but they appeared in the Sutton registers as well without baptism dates but with birth dates.

Francis Pakeman is the son of William and Ann baptised in Carsington but appears in the Sutton birth date of 18th Oct 1802.

The same birth dates in the Carsington registers are all the same as the sutton ones for William and Anns children.

Meercat.

Meercat..you're a dream..I had got as far as looking at the Carsington registers, but could not see the connection.. found FRANCIS born 18.10.1802 baptised 29.02.1802..son of William and Ann,,,but got no further than wishful thinking...

..as always thank you for your excellent contributions.......I'm sure Barbara will be very pleased.

Thank you again..what a team we'd make!!

Derek.

Hi Barbara doozies?????.....I have a special side line when I'm bored ,,of picking bones in the doozies \trees............its so easy sometimes to find the perpetrators..who simply copy ad infinitum a mistake that leads to others......and when you see an obvious mistake...............like the one you mention..which I also found.......then I have fun!!
Some people have the grace to get back to me..others tell me I'm wrong..How dare they tell the Derbsyshire maestro he's wrong!!!! ;-) :-D.....Now that Meercat has put me right I can add the Carsington entries just in case you don't have them............children of William and Ann:-

Joseph 16.01.1802
FRANCIS 29.12.1802
Hannah 09.01.1806
John 22.08.1810............these are baptisms not births..

there is one later baptism...Roger son of Charles and hannah 08.01.1815..probably unrelated?

Derek.

Hi Meercat and Derek,

Thank you so much for all your help with this. I must admit my mind is spinning with the baptisms being in Carsington but the names also appearing in the SOTH registers. I've not come across this before - is it something that is quite common??

I found the details for their daughter Ann and also came across 2 further entries - William 1799 and Mary 1804 both at SOTH. Do you think that I am possibly right in concluding that these are also children of the same William and Ann??

I think that I need a very large glass of something medicinal - my poor little brain cell is about to fry !! :-S My daughter and I seriously thought that the Pakeman's should be easy ...................... oh how wrong we were !

And you're right Derek - how dare they question your authority. We all know that we are in the shadow of greatness ;-)

Regards

Barbara :-D :-D :-D

Hi Derek and Barbara,

This is what I can find for William and Anns children.

Ann baptised 15th Jan 1798.
William birth 5th Apr 1799.
Joseph birth 22 June 1801.
Francis birth 18 Oct 1802.
Mary birth 16 June 1804.
Hannah birth 3 Dec 1805.
Thomas birth 22 Dec 1807.
John birth 23 June 1810.

Barbara you are right about the other baptisms at Sutton. :-D

Derek I am not to bad for a derbyshire girl born and bred,strong in the arm and thick in the head. ;-)

Hi Meercat!

What a brilliant saying - certainly made me laugh :-D But I can't agree with the thick head bit ... you and Derek have been such invaluable help with all these darned Pakemans lol .... thank you so much for all your help.

My mind was racing last night with all the branches and who was related to who - in the end I had to give myself a virtual slap and a severe telling off!

This family history lark is just addictive. As my daughter says "its almost as bad as chocolate - just not as creamy" ....

Anyway have a good afternoon and keep warm.

Regards

Barbara

hi Barbara,

I think Dereks off the hook for being born and bred in Derbyshire :-D so the
being thick doesn't apply to him.

You will sort out the Packmans once you get your head around them.

Meercat.

Pakemans even............says a thicko Yorkshireman!

told you I was thick :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

meercat.

Hi Derek, re George Ross, yes his wife was Sarah, they were married at St Peters in Wolverhampton April 1818, and had 12 kids, their oldest Mary was baptised July 1818 at St Michael and All Angels, in Pelsall, I believe it is or was C of E, only 3 months after the marriage, the second child Joseph was baptised at the RC church Bloxwich as were many of the other children. I did find a George baptised July 1794, at St Peter and Paul RC in Wolverhampton, it seems a bit of a stretch.There are other Georges, baptisms but mostly in Yorkshire Perhaps a silly question, when you look up records, either at churches or at the matlock office, are you looking at transcribed records, the original or copies of the original? Transcribed records often seem to have rather obvious mistakes, I have seen in George's census records 3 members listed as last name Ross, and the other ones as Ropp on the same census and I would assume the same person transcribed the whole page.
The whole Walsall area is a hotbed of Rosses, there are several families, which may or may not be somewhow connected.
Thanks in advance for whatever you may find-Monica

Hi Dereck

I am try to find info on family with surname ILES. I have on my tree Stephani/Stephen Iles married Alice? 1564 St Oswald Ashbrne Derbyshire. I have also come across Edmundi and Nicolai Iles and wonder if they are related to Stephani.

The only records I have found for possible children of Stephani and Alice are Stephanus baptised 1565 and Thomas Baptised 1576 both St Oswald Ashborne.

I cant get back any further and would like to find parents of Stephani and Alice? and would be grateful for any other info you can find,

Thank you

Rita

Hi Dereck

I am try to find info on family with surname ILES. I have on my tree Stephani/Stephen Iles married Alice? 1564 St Oswald Ashbrne Derbyshire. I have also come across Edmundi and Nicolai Iles and wonder if they are related to Stephani.

The only records I have found for possible children of Stephani and Alice are Stephanus baptised 1565 and Thomas Baptised 1576 both St Oswald Ashborne.

I cant get back any further and would like to find parents of Stephani and Alice? and would be grateful for any other info you can find,

Thank you

Rita

Hello Rita......well you've done pretty well to get as far as you have !!..and I doubt you'll get much further unless any of you ILES people were people of note..or married into nobility.......because Parish Records before about 1550 are very rare indeed..and most of them are totally unreadable.
I think to get any earlier there has to be some sort of Land or Probate records..which you'd only get if the people actually owned property.......

The full extent of the early Ashbourne Records are as follows:-..bearing in mind that only the father's name was recorded, unless the child was illegitimate...

Dorothea 08.10.1594...Bridgeta 06.04.1618 and another Dorothea 12.04.1615..children of NICOLAI ILES.

Stephanus 20.07.1565 son of Stephani

Agnes 08.10.1570..Nicolaus 08.08.1568..and Joanna 14.09.1573..all children of Edmundi

Marriages are very few, and give little information......

Nicolaus 1592 to Joanna Frost
Thomas 1609. to Parnella Towell
Stephen 1564 to Alice.........probably unreadable

There are two early baptisms as Great Longstone:-

Thomas 30.01.1647 and James in April 1652...sons of JOHN ILES.

I'll have a dig around for you, but Ithink you're on the very limit of how far you can get back.

All the best.

Derek.

Hi Derek,

I'm looking for John Bryans, of Walton on the Wolds Leicestershire, marriage to a Mary and the only one that I can find is at Calke Derbyshire on 10 May 1830 says he was of Smisby so was wondering if you can find if they had any children there or anything on them before I rule them out or add the marriage to my tree.

Wendy

Hello Derek

Thank you so much for taking time to do look up. I was starting to think the same about getting back any further, but was hoping I might find connection for the people you have listed.

thanks again
Rita

Hello Wendy........two problems...one is the very few John Bryans..and the very large number of John Bryan without the "s".......also you quote a marriage at Calke Derbyshire 1830.............which actually took place 10.05.1730..between John Bryan and Mary Luin..........again no "s"..........HELP!!!

EDIT........in case your 1830 is aa Typo.....here are some chidlren of JOHN BRYAN (no "s") and Mary..at Walton on the Wolds in the years following 1730:-

Mary 19.12.1736
John 10.12.1738
Jane 16.09.1740
Thomas 16.10.1747
Mille 02.03.1750
Sarah 16.02.1752
Thomas 10.03.1754..............rather wide time scale..but not impossible with no telly!!
FURTHER EDIT.......it seems that jOHN BRYANS was born 1711 son of John and jane nee Bucknall..and he had a brother Thomas 1705 who appears to have married twice and had loads of children.....if any of these are of interest to you..we might be in business


Derek.

Hi Derek,

I'm so so so so so so sorry my mistake yes it should have been 1730. It is the family of Walton that I'm doing have all the children for John and Mary they also had a son James born 1757 who is my husband 5th great grandfather, so you are in agreement that John & Mary who married in Calke are the same ones. So we are in business and I can work back a bit more. So anything you can give me help with would be great.

Sometimes Bryans is selpt with s or without, sometimes as Bryon/s or Brian/s

Thank you so so so much

Wendy :-D :-D :-D

Hello Wendy............here are a couple of things that I have confirmed 100%......JOHN BRYANS married JANE BUCKNALL at Walon on the Wolds 04.03.1704..and had load of children..whose baptism dates i have if you want them........interesting how most of the names are perpetuated in the next generation children of John and Mary.........quite a few infant deaths and "replacements"..for instance John 1711 who married Mary Luin was a replacement for a John born 17.10.1708..dies 10.12.1708.....

Derek