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Trying to find out about Thomas Finlay born 1871 and his father also thomas born about 1846. Young Thomas born in Westgate Newcastle to Rosanna. Thomas senior was in Canada by this time. Need to fill in gaps. Unable to find them in any census returns.Thomas senior's father was John. No idea where born.

But Thomas Jr. was born in 1871. ;)


Those "surname boards" and "surname lines" ... Georgina put the name there, but we can't see it!

I might guess, in 1871

Thomas Cook 40
Martha Cook 2
John Cook 38
Priscilla Cook 19
Patrick Tolley 24
Rosanna Tolley 21
> Thomas Tolley 2
Mary Tolley 9 months

Ancestry has made a complete hash of the household; I've added corrections, for whoever's family they are. ;)

Marriages Jun 1870
Barlow Ann Newcastle L 6b 100
> Cook Rosina Newcastle L 6b 100
Newton John Newcastle L 6b 100
> TULLEY Patrick Newcastle L 6b 100

Sorry, thought I was in a surname section, Finlay is the Family Iam looking for. Thomas born 1871 (April) in Newcastle, Westgate area. His father Thomas born c.1846 ie aged 22 on marriage to Rosanna McLane in 1868. Daughter Mary Ann born 1869. Grandad John Finlay. Unable to find anymore info. Thomas senior went to Canada where he drowned ?? when
Thanks for any help

Need some more info!

From the marriage certificate:

Fathers of Thomas and Rosanna.
(Urgh, did I miss it or did you edit? Thomas's father John.)

Rosanna's age - do you have her in any previous census?

Thomas's occupation.


What info do you have about Thomas Sr's death in Canada, and from what source?

For ref (useful to know whether there were middle names, for instance):

Births Jun 1871
Finlay Thomas Newcastle T. 10b 24

and of course to know the actual spelling of the names!

Marriages Dec 1868
Finlay Thomas Newcastle On Tyne 10b 256
McLEAN Rosanna Newcastle T. 10b 256

1871 - ?

Name: Mary Ann Finlay
Age: 2
Estimated birth year: abt 1869
Relation: Pauper
Gender: Female
Where born: Ireland

Name: Rose Ann Finlay
Age: 25
Estimated birth year: abt 1846
Relation: Pauper
Gender: Female
Where born: Ireland

Civil parish: Elswick
Ecclesiastical parish: Benwell St James
County/Island: Northumberland
ED, institution, or vessel: Union Workhouse


Rose Ann is recorded as married, occupation servant.

If you have a birth record for Mary Ann in England, the "Ireland" in this record could have been an assumption by the institution official who filled out the schedule.

In the workouse in 1871?

FINLAY, Rose Ann Pauper F 25 1846 Ireland
FINLAY, Mary Ann Pauper F 2 1869 Ireland


So what was Thomas snrs occupation on marriage cert?and father Johns ?

Ps ,Im off to bed,will wait and see if any magic has been done in the morning.
viv

This is a household in 1881 that I don't see in 1881 (edit - I meant that I didn't see in *1871*) (although I may not have looked hard enough yet).

Name: Thomas Hornby
Age: 9
Estimated birth year: abt 1872
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Thomas
Mother's Name: Rose A.
Where born: Newcastle On Tyne

Name: Thomas Hornby
Age: 42
Estimated birth year: abt 1839
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Rose A.
Where born: Newcastle On Tyne
Occupation: Mariner

Civil parish: Tynemouth
County/Island: Northumberland

Thomas Hornby 42
Rose A. Hornby 34
Mary A. Hornby 13
Sarah E. Hornby 11
Thomas Hornby 9
Louisa Hornby 7

Sarah and Louisa shown as born North Shields, all others as Newcastle on Tyne.


A name change? a blended family? Odd that
Mary A c1868 and Thomas c1872 are Newcastle on Tyne
Sarah E c1870 and Louisa c1874 are North Shields ...


Aha.

Marriages Dec 1879
Andrews Henry Tynemouth 10b 297
> Finlay Rose Ann Tynemouth 10b 297
> Hornby Thomas Tynemouth 10b 297
RINGWOOD Sophia Tynemouth 10b 2977


A blended family, I do believe!

Does that take you as far forward as you need to go, Georgina? -- i.e. you know about young Thomas's adult trajectory?

It gives a timeframe for Thomas Sr's death - between 1871 and 1879, not much better than what you had.

From the marriage certificate, his occupation -- was he also a mariner? He might well have drowned "at sea". Death records for some Canadian provinces are available at some places on line -- Ontario at Ancestry, Nova Scotia has its own searchable index ...


This looks like Thomas Hornby's first familiy in 1871:

Thomas Hornby 31
Elizabeth Hornby 35
Maris J Hornby 5
John T Hornby 3
> Sarah E Hornby 1

Civil parish: Chirton
Town: North Shields
County/Island: Northumberland
Registration district: Tynemouth


His place of birth is given as Sunderland, Durham. One suspects that the places of birth for both him and Rose Ann in 1881 were birthplaces of convenience.

This could be Thomas Hornby's first wife's death:

Deaths Sep 1876
HORNBY Elizabeth 42 Tynemouth 10b 98

That death is worth placing as it could suggest when Thomas Sr died.

If the new Hornby couple had children before their marriage, it could suggest that one of their spouses was still alive, preventing their marriage.

But they don't seem to have had, so the timeline is no great help.


Daughter Louisa:

Births Jun 1873
Hornby Louisa Tynemouth 10b 169

would seem to be daughter of Thomas Hornby's first wife. It could be worth confirming, though.

Rosanna McLean on wedding certificate but it is spelt McLain on Mary Anne's birth certificate. On Thomas' birth certificate Rose Ann McLean.Mary Ann was born at 35 Backhouse Lane, Newcastle. Neither Thomas appears to have a middle name. On the wedding certificate of 1868 fathers are listed as John Finlay and John McLean. Rosanna age is given as 22. They were Roman Catholics and married in St mary's catholic church Newcastle apparently now the cathedral.
The story about Thomas senior going to Canada is family folklore.He apparently was going to seek his fortune and send for the family but drowned in the Hudson before this happened. According to one family member he was a fur trapper but not as yet substantiated!
This is where I lose them all until 1904 when THomas (1871 )marries Ellen Mcgough, my greatgrandmother.All I know is that he ran away to join the army when his mother remarries and he hates new daddy. He possibly lied about his age.
Does this help anymore?

For good measure, 1891, confirming my theory about the birthplaces:

Name: Rose A Hornby
Age: 46
Estimated birth year: abt 1845
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: Thomas
> Where born: Ireland

Name: Thomas Hornby
Age: 51
Estimated birth year: abt 1840
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Rose A
> Where born: Sunderland, Durham, England

Civil parish: All Saints
Town: Foreign Trade
County/Island: Northumberland

Thomas Hornby 51
Rose A Hornby 46

Are you reading along, Georgina? ;)

We now have Rosanna (Rose Ann) in 1871 with daughter Mary Ann, in 1881 with Mary Ann and Thomas Jr and new husband, and in 1891!

Re running away to join the army -- I had a look in the Imperial Yeomanry for the Anglo-Boer War (c1901, a little late)

http://www.britishmedals.us/files/iyf.htm
http://www.britishmedals.us/files/iyh.htm

but no Thomas Finlay or Hornby.

Here he is in 1891.

Name: Thomas Finlay
Age: 19
Estimated birth year: abt 1872
Relation: Private
Where born: Numberland, Newcastle Upon Tyne

Civil parish: St Thomas
County/Island: Hampshire

ED, institution, or vessel: The Barracks

Occupations for Thomas 1846, his father and father-inlaw are all given as
Labourer. Finlay is the correct family spelling,although the 1911 census transcription was initially incorrect. It has now been corrected
Geeorgina

Georgina, you seem to be looking at posts one by one and not reading the thread ...

Brilliant Janey. I have kept trying to find him in records. I believe he fought in the Boer war. Then he did something in thje first world war possibly to
do with mining nad was in the home guard in Newcastle in the 2nd world war,I believe fire fighting in the docks
Georgina

What I was checking in the Anglo-Boer war was the Imperial Yeomanry, more of a militia. He seems to have been regular army. In 1891 the barracks appear to be the King's Royal Rifles (I just looked at p. 1 of the census forms).

You'd have to do some googling to read up on them.

At Kevin Asplin's site I searched for royal rifles.

http://www.britishmedals.us/

http://www.britishmedals.us/files/SL1899.htm

example:

Cape Times Weekly Edition 15/03/00
The 2/King’s Royal Rifles will sail to-day for India in the Avoca.