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Hi

Can anyone please help - I'm trying to find the marriage of my gr grandparents. I have my grandmothers birth certificate and her father is named as Horace Dowling and her mother as Gracia Dowling (m.s Mepham) - I think I've found Horace remarrying in 1944 on the records but I can't seem to find the marriage of H & G? Their daughter Audrey Grace was born in 1930 and I know she had 3 other siblings too.

Can someone please point me in the right direction - there is a potential that the Mepham side of the family were from Ireland.

Many Thanks

Marriages Mar 1914 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dowling Horace Mepham Steyning 2b 447
MEPHAM Gracia Dowling Steyning 2b 447

Possibility in 1911:
CLARKE, William Henry Head Married M 46 1865 Solicitor Yorkshire York VIEW
CLARKE, Anne Elizabeth Wife Married
21 years F 49 1862 Yorkshire Ebberston VIEW
CLARKE, Eskricke Joseph Son Single M 19 1892 Solicitors Artisted Clerk Yorkshire Leeds VIEW
CLARKE, Mildred Amethe Daughter Single F 18 1893 Yorkshire Leeds VIEW
SACOYNE, Annie Servant Single F 33 1878 Cook Domestic Yorkshire Seacroft VIEW
>>>MEPHAM, Gracia Servant Single F 19 1892 Housemaid Domestic Sussex Heathfield VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
27085 Reference:
RG14PN27085 RG78PN1549 RD500 SD4 ED32 SN291

Registration District:
Leeds Sub District:
Kirkstall Enumeration District:
32 Parish:
Leeds

Address:
Hollin House Hollin Lane County:
Yorkshire (West riding)

>>1901:
Name: Grace Mepham
Age: 9
Estimated birth year: abt 1892
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Frederick
Mother's Name: Caroline
Gender: Female
Where born: Heathfield, Sussex, England

Civil parish: Heathfield
Ecclesiastical parish: Heathfield All Saints
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Hailsham
Sub-registration district: Hurstmonceux
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 148
Household Members: Name Age
Frederick Mepham 42 Born Heathfield, Sussex
Caroline Mepham 37 Born Waldron, Sussex, England
Fred Mepham 14
Kate Mepham 11
Grace Mepham 9
Carrie Mepham 6
Henry Mepham 3
Vinnie Mepham 10 months

Births Mar 1892 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mepham Grace Hailsham 2b 90

Name: Gracia Dowling
Death Registration Month/Year: 1939
Age at death (estimated): 47
Registration district: Surrey South Western
Inferred County: Surrey
Volume: 2a
Page: 963

for ref:-
Name: Audrey G Dowling
Mother's Maiden Surname: Mepham
Date of Registration: Apr May Jun 1930
Registration district: Farnham
Registration county: Surrey,Kent
Volume Number: 2a
Page Number: 252

possible siblings:-
Name: Horace V Dowling
Mother's Maiden Surname: Mepham
Date of Registration: Jul Aug Sep 1916
Registration district: Brighton
Registration county: Sussex, Isle of Wight
Volume Number: 2b
Page Number: 303

Name: Betty J Dowling
Mother's Maiden Surname: Mepham
Date of Registration: Oct Nov Dec 1918
Registration district: Farnham
Registration county: Surrey,Kent
Volume Number: 2a
Page Number: 171

Name: Eileen M Dowling
Mother's Maiden Surname: Mapham
Date of Registration: Oct Nov Dec 1920
Registration district: Hartley W
Registration county: Hampshire, Berkshire
Volume Number: 2c
Page Number: 364

Name: Eric N Dowling
Mother's Maiden Surname: Mepham
Date of Registration: Jan Feb Mar 1923
Registration district: Hartley W
Registration county: Hampshire, Berkshire
Volume Number: 2c
Page Number: 361

Name: Stanley C Dowling
Mother's Maiden Surname: Mepham
Date of Registration: Jul Aug Sep 1925
Registration district: Farnham
Registration county: Surrey,Kent
Volume Number: 2a
Page Number: 224

Name: Valerie A Dowling
Mother's Maiden Surname: Mepham
Date of Registration: Oct Nov Dec 1934
Registration district: Aldershot
Registration county: Hampshire, Berkshire
Volume Number: 2c
Page Number: 291

Births Mar 1915
Dowling Gladys M Mepham Brighton 2b 316

Births Sep 1916
Dowling Horace V Mephan Brighton 2b 303

Births Dec 1920
Dowling Eileen M Mepham Hartley W. 2c 384

Births Mar 1923
Dowling Eric N Mepham Hartley W. 2c 361

Births Sep 1925
Dowling Stanley C Mepham Farnham 2a 224

Births Jun 1930
Dowling Audrey G Mepham Farnham 2a 252


Births Dec 1934
Dowling Valerie A Mepham Aldershot 2c 291


Deaths Dec 1939
Dowling Gracia 47 Surrey S.W. 2a 963

Possibility:

Name: Horace Dowling
Birth Date: 16 Feb 1893
Death Registration Month/Year: 1974
Registration district: Surrey South Western
Inferred County: Surrey
Volume: 5g
Page: 1458

1901:
Name: Horace Dowling
Age: 8
Estimated birth year: abt 1893
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Matilda
Gender: Male
Where born: Stalham (Holbourn on orig), London, England

Civil parish: St Pancras
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Cross
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: St Pancras
Sub-registration district: Gray's Inn Lane
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 511
Household Members: Name Age
John Dowling 32 born Holbourn
Matilda Dowling 32 born Camberwell
John Dowling 13
Harry Dowling 10
Horace Dowling 8
James Dowling 6
Johanna Dowling 3
Adelaide Dowling 2 8 months

Wow

Thank you everyone for your help

I'd spotted a couple of those that you've listed before so I'll have to go back and revisit these and check.

Thank you again really appreciate it

Hi everyone

After your help again with this one if possible please. I ordered the marriage certificate of Mepham/Dowling and it's confirmed that the Mepham information you found me was correct.

The Dowling information seems incorrect though. On the marriage certificate it says Horace Dowling's Father was also a Horace Dowling. Both Mepham and Dowling were living in Hove, East Sussex when they married on 18/03/1914.

It looks as though H Dowling Snr was a Colonel Sergeant on the marriage cert but he was also deceased when they married in 1914.

I've searched cenus records but can only find the Dowling you guys found above. Is it possible that if Dowling snr was in the army that Horace was born abroad?

My mum thought there was a potential Irish connection on this side but I haven't found it yet

Can any of you guys please help trace Horace Dowling for me

Thanks
Carly

I know very little about military history but I do not think that I have ever heard of the rank of Colonel Sergeant. It sounds a bit like an "Invention" to me but I may be wrong. Are you sure it reads that or could it be Colour Sergeant?

If I am wrong about Colonel Sergeant I am sure someone will correct me.

Was any age of the groom or his occupation shown on the marriage certificate?

Ok so maybe it does say colour sergeant - sorry my bad - still learning to read these certificates!

It looks like Horace lived at 8 Grove Street, Hove, East Sussex. They were both 22 when they were married - so I guess he was born around 1892. Horace was a butchers assistant.

I can't really read what Frederick Mepham did (Gracia's father) looks like Millero to me but that doesn't make sense?

Thanks for your help

I took a peek because my best friend is a Mepham, not the world's most common name. ;)

I'm suspecting Horace made up his father.

The marriage was in Q1 1914. This is the most likely candidate for Horace's birth:

Births Mar 1891
Dowling Horace William Newport, M. 11a 263

If the marriage was before his birthday, that would match with age 22.

There is no Horace Dowling marriage before that birth, and I don't see a Horace Dowling in 1891 or 1901 with father Horace.

People whose parents were not married quite commonly made up fathers when they married. A father with the same name as the party marrying (Horace and Horace, here) is sometimes a clue that this was the case. It might also be the case that the father's given name was correct, he just had a different surname.

This looks like that Horace in 1911 (and you can do the search there):

http://www.1911census.co.uk/search/tnaform.aspx

DOWLING HORACE 1891 20 Newport Monmouthshire

Next, search for surname Dowling living in Newport with Horace Dowling:

DOWLING RUTH 1855 56 Newport Monmouthshire
DOWLING WILLIAM 1852 59 Newport Monmouthshire

so it looks like not him. Hmmm.

Only two births of an age to be your Horace's father:

Births Mar 1862
DOWLING Horoce Andover 2c 203
Births Sep 1874
Dowling Horace John Kingsclere 2c 212

The second one married in Kingsclere in 1897 and is in the 1901 with wife Ellen and young children. I don't see any record of the older one after that birth.


I wonder about this Horace in 1901:

Name: Horace Dowling
Age: 9
Estimated birth year: abt 1892
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Edmund
Mother's Name: Maryann
Gender: Male
Where born: Hungerford, Berkshire, England

Civil parish: Surbiton
Ecclesiastical parish: Surbiton Christchurch
County/Island: Surrey

Edmund Buckland 56
Maryann Buckland 42
May Buckland 1
Horace Dowling 9
Hannah Forrester 40


Marriages Dec 1897
> Buckland Edmund Kingston 2a 702
> Dowling Mary Ann Kingston 2a 702
McCaughie Racheal Amelia Kingston 2a 702
McCaughie Rachel Amelia Kingston 2a 702
Pelling Walter William J Kingston 2a 702

So that Horace would be a son of Mary Ann before her marriage to Buckland -- when she was unmarried, or to a previous marriage ...

He looks like the likeliest candidate, to me.


Here we are:

Births Jun 1891
Harris Horace Dowling Hungerford 2c 262


I think he gets my vote. ;)

A surname as a middle name is very commonly an indication of the surname of the father, where the parents were not married. So I suspect his father was Dowling, but he may or may not have been Horace; likely not. I don't see a Harris-Dowling marriage to fit.

Here is Gracia's father in 1911. He has remarried:

MEPHAM, Frederick Head Married M 52 1859 Miller General And Stationary Driver Engn Heathfield Sussex VIEW
MEPHAM, Lucy Wife Married
6 years F 48 1863 Guildford Surrey VIEW
MEPHAM, Henry Son M 13 1898 School Heathfield Sussex VIEW
MEPHAM, Clarence Son M 10 1901 School Heathfield Sussex VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
4868 Reference:
RG14PN4868 RG78PN210 RD72 SD1 ED11 SN135

Registration District:
Hailsham Sub District:
Herstmonceux Enumeration District:
11 Parish:
Heathfield

Address:
Sandy Cross Heathfield County:
Sussex

My money is on this Horace in 1911. Note his occupation:

DOWLING, Horace Logder Single M 19 1892 Butcher Hungerford VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
3508 Reference:
RG14PN3508 RG78PN131 RD40 SD2 ED11 SN259

Registration District:
Kingston Sub District:
Kingston Enumeration District:
11 Parish:
Kingston on Thames

Address:
21 Oaklea Passage Kingston upon Thames County:
Surrey

1901, Edmund is not his father, morelikely his step father:

Name: Horace Dowling
Age: 9
Estimated birth year: abt 1892
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Edmund
Mother's Name: Maryann
Gender: Male
Where born: Hungerford, Berkshire, England

Civil parish: Surbiton
Ecclesiastical parish: Surbiton Christchurch
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Kingston
Sub-registration district: Surbiton
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 252
Household Members: Name Age
Edmund Buckland 56
Maryann Buckland 42
May Buckland 1
Horace Dowling 9
Hannah Forrester 40

Marriages Dec 1897 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Buckland Edmund Kingston 2a 702
Dowling Mary Ann Kingston 2a 702

Uh, Jonesey ... note where your Horace Dowling in 1911 was born ... and where Horace Dowling Harris was born ... ;)

(edit - I have to admit I didn't make that connection when I pounced on Horace Dowling Harris! Double good, now.)

Did you find a birth for your 1911 Horace Dowling maybe?

Janey,

I had missed your full post. I agree, this is the Horace we have been looking for. A copy of the Buckland/Dowling marriage is now needed to see Mary Ann's status at the time of her marriage to Edmund.

Yes indeed -- because I am having no luck whatsoever tracing Mary Ann in earlier censuses, or anybody else around Hungerford who might connect up with her! So whether Harris [edit - meant Dowling] was her birth or previous married surname - whether she was unmarried or a widow - is a crucial bit of info!

She could have been unmarried or a widow when she had Horace in 1891, of course -- she was over 30, so a previous marriage is quite possible, but Horace might not have been a child of that marriage.


Oops, I lied. Here she is in 1891:


Name: Mary A Dowling
Age: 33
Estimated birth year: abt 1858
Relation: Visitor
Where born: Milford On Sea, Hampshire, England
- image shows marital status *widowed*

Civil parish: Hungerford

William Smith 46
Emma Smith 34
Elizabeth M Smith 10
Rheuben Smith 7
Florence R Smith 3
Arthur Smith 1
Winifred A Smith 2/12
Mary A Dowling 33


How ... interesting ...


1881

Name: Mary Ann Rickman
Age: 23
Estimated birth year: abt 1858
Relation: Servant
Where born: Milford, Hampshire, England
Occupation: Cook Dom

Civil parish: Kingston On Thames
County/Island: Surrey

Authur W.B. Thompson 46
Frances Thompson 38
Frances C. Thompson 2
Charles W. Thompson 1
Mary Ann Rickman 23
Mary Ray 22


Marriages Jun 1884
> Dowling Michael Kingston 2a 496
FLINT James Kingston 2a 496
Hedges Mary Percy Kingston 2a 496
> Rickman Mary Ann Kingston 2a 496


So it's looking like it was Horace's father who was the Harris.

Mary Ann's hubby didn't last long:

Deaths Dec 1885 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DOWLING Michael 33 Kingston 2a 197

So there we are, she had her son Horace with someone else, presumably a Harris.

The only Harris I like for the job, in Hungerford in 1891, is:

Name: Francis Amos Harris
Age: 30
Estimated birth year: abt 1861
Relation: Boarder
Where born: Shatcham, Berkshire, England
[Thatcham]
- single, occupation painter

Civil parish: Hungerford


Head of household is an innkeeper/publican.

There is no record of a Francis Amos Harris being born, marrying or dying.

It's interesting that an Ancestry user corrected the place of birth, in November 2009. That user last logged in last month and could presumably be contacted through the Ancestry system. His/her tree shows a Francis Harris born 1813, father Amos - likely the father and grandfather of the above Francis Amos Harris ...

Janey,

I agree again, that (Francis Amos) looks like the prime suspect to me as well.

There were only 3 Harris males in Hungerford according to the census and the others may have been a little too old (54) or too young (15). Thats assuming that Mary Ann wasn't in to older men or toy boys. (lol)

You guys amaze me how you find all this stuff.

So do we think this is the correct Horace?

Registration district: Kingston
Sub-registration district: Surbiton
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 252
Household Members: Name Age
Edmund Buckland 56
Maryann Buckland 42
May Buckland 1
Horace Dowling 9
Hannah Forrester 40

Mother was Mary Ann Rickman - married Michael Dowling who died in 1885. Horace Dowling was born in 1891 - possibly with teh father's surname being Harris?

So would there be any reason why he never used the middle name Harris on anything?

Are we pretty sure this is him - I guess I need to order his birth certificate to see who it shows as the father?!

Really appreciate all of your help on this

Carly,

It is just a gift that we have for being nosey. A suspicious nature helps a bit as well.

At birth he was registered as a Harris (Horace Dowling Harris) so the certificate may give you the fathers details and give you his mothers maiden name:

Births Jun 1891 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Harris Horace Dowling Hungerford 2c 262

I am guessing that he (or most probably his mother) dropped the Harris from his name when she split from his father.


Good luck with the rest of your tree.