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I have been asked to help research a family which has taken me to

Marriages Sep 1918
Asdale Johnny Barker Bradford
9b 256

Barker Frances M Asdale Bradford
9b 256

I can find no record of any description for Johnny Asdale and do not as yet have sight of a marriage certificate. Does anybody have any ideas as to where I might find him, or was he an alien?

Many thanks,
Frances

Hi Frances,

maybe his death??

England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2005 about Johnny Asdale
Name: Johnny Asdale
Death Registration Month/Year: 1961
Age at death (estimated): 66
Registration district: Bradford
Inferred County: Yorkshire West Riding
Volume: 2b
Page: 212


Year of birth @1895.


Dee x

See what you mean! It seems to be a very unusual name, there are a few about but not many, and all in the same area. Trying 1911 but no luck so far.
The only birth apart from his children I can see is:

Births Mar 1897 (>99%)
Asdale Robert York 9d 57

Frances,

I cannot find anyone with the name Asdale on the 1901/1911 be interesting to see the marriage cerificate when or if you get it.

Regards Vera

Looking at ancestry 3 of the 5(!) are from Scotland - maybe this is the answer? But they are all from way back and you would expect more on census reports anyway.
Would be very interested in results from the cert!
Jan

I only took time out to water the tomato plants and you have all been so busy - thank you. I hadn't thought about his death (yet) but a very neat way of finding his potential birth year. I had found Robert and wondered whether he had changed his name to get married. I previously had an incidence of somebody marrying using his dead brother's name - maybe because he had spent some time in Wetherby Borstal!
Scotland is a problem isn't it - no FreeBMD!!
I will push harder for the marriage certificate .....

No point in trying for births at this point as no Asdales in Scotland 1901 anyway! Even tried Ireland 1901/1911 and no joy.
Other possibility is that it's a corruption of another name or (hopefully not!) made up!
Jan

As I said, Brummiejan, an alien - lol

I know it seems vague but there is a marriage of a James William Asdale of York married in Dec qtr 1893. As 'Johnny' has named one of his children Robert W Asdale, who later died, could this Johnny actually be Robert Asdale and possibly the W may be William after what could be his father's second name. I know anything could happen in this game, and it doesn't explain where the family was in 1901...just a thought.- JLe

Hi,

Unfortunately it doesn't look like Johnny is Robert as here's Roberts death in WW1;

Name: ASDALE, ROBERT
Initials: R
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: West Yorkshire Regiment (Prince of Wales's Own)
Unit Text: 2nd Bn.
Age: 19
Date of Death: 01/07/1916
Service No: 3/8755
Additional information: Son of Mary Jane Grafton (formerly Asdale), of Meadley's Square, Knaresborough, Yorks, and the late James Asdale.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Pier and Face 2 A 2 C and 2 D.
Memorial: THIEPVAL MEMORIAL



Dee x

This family came to light when I was searching the 1901 for the Asdale family.......... now I may be barking completely up the wrong tree, however I just have a gut feeling that this maybe the family we are looking for??


1901 England Census about Robbie Devoto
Name: Robbie Devoto
Age: 4
Estimated birth year: abt 1897
Relation: Son
Father's Name: James T
Mother's Name: Mary J
Gender: Male
Where born: York, Yorkshire, England
Civil parish: Sheffield
Ecclesiastical parish: Hollis Croft Sheffield St Luke
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Sheffield
Sub-registration district: North Sheffield
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 221
Household Members:
Name Age
James T Devoto 25 Born Knaresborough, Yorkshire
Mary J Devoto 25 Born Stockton-On-Tees, Durham
Johnny Devoto 6 Born York, Yorkshire
Robbie Devoto 4

I should also add that James Asdale died in Stockton Durham in 1910 and Mary Jane Asdale remarried in 1913 in Knaresborough, so these birth places also tie in with the areas in which they seemed to live.


Dee x

Maybe connection to other robert w Asdale 1897-1916

Johnny and Frances had son Robert W Asdale 1927 Bradford he died 1927.

Maryb

Thank you Mary, Janet and Dee, there does seem to be a possible link running through all your finds. I will see what I can concoct with paper and pen but in the end it will need patience to see if the marriage certificate provides a suitable explanation.

Frances

Hi all contributors to this thread. I have now been sent a picture of the marriage certificate for Johnny Asdale and father is given as James. The family as found by Dee in 1901 is the correct one so didn't you do well. Thank you.

Frances

Hi Frances,

In 1901 James Devoto was listed as a "Pot Hawker", this Moore family is in the right area for a marriage in the York reg district and John Moore is a "Hawker"... so maybe??

1891 England Census about James Moore
Name: James Moore
Age: 16
Estimated birth year: abt 1875
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Knaresborough
Civil parish: St George
Ecclesiastical parish: St Dennis and St George
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: York
Sub-registration district: Walmgate
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
John Obrian 23
Elizabeth Obrian 23
Elizabeth Obrian 2
Mary A Obrian 3/12
John Moore 30
Eleanor Moore 40
James Moore 16



Dee x

The same Moore family in 1901;

1901 England Census about John Moore
Name: John Moore
Age: 38
Estimated birth year: abt 1863
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Vinia
Gender: Male
Where born: Bradford, Yorkshire, England
Civil parish: York
Ecclesiastical parish: St Margaret
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: York
Sub-registration district: Walmgate
ED, institution, or vessel: 19
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 136
Household Members:
Name Age
John Moore 38 >> Army Reservist
Vinia Moore 40 >> Born Sunderland (same in 1891)
Eliza Obrien 13
Mary Ann Obrien 10
Lavina Obrien 5
John Moore 14 >> Nephew


The Obrien children are listed as Grandchildren


Dee x

I was looking for a marriage between John Obrien and Elizabeth, now I've come across this which maybe a red herring but worth checking out;

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Dec 1887 (>99%)
>>>>>>>>>>>Hasdale Elizabeth Swales E.Ward 10b 1039
MASLAND Timothy E. Ward 10b 1039
>>>>>>>>>>O'BRIAN John East Ward 10b 1039
WHARTON Isabella Ireland E Ward 10b 1039


Dee xx

1881 England Census about Elizabeth Hasdell
Name: Elizabeth Hasdell
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1869
Relation: Pauper Inmate (Pauper)
Gender: Female
Where born: Darlington, Yorkshire, England
Civil parish: Knaresborough
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Street Address: "Union Workhouse" Back Lane
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Occupation: Scholar
Registration district: Knaresborough
Sub-registration district: Knaresborough
ED, institution, or vessel: 2


With lots more people but these also show;

Lavinia Hasdell 21 born Sunderland, Durham. Occupation; Glass & China Hawker

Martha Hasdell 9 born Knaresbro, Yorkshire


Dee x

And just found this;

1881 England Census about James Hasdell
Name: James Hasdell
Age: 4
Estimated birth year: abt 1877
Relation: Pauper Inmate (Pauper)
Gender: Male
Where born: Knaresbro, Yorkshire, England
Civil parish: Knaresborough
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Street Address: "Union Workhouse" Back Lane
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Occupation: Scholar
Registration district: Knaresborough
Sub-registration district: Knaresborough
ED, institution, or vessel: 2


In the same workhouse as Lavinia and the girls!!!!




Dee x

Looks like the James William Asdales birth details have been mistranscribed??

Births Jun 1876 (>99%)
HARDILL James William Knaresborough 9a 105



Dee x