Find Ancestors

This is just an idea. My Uncle was George born in Ipswich Suffolk England in 1908-1979

Please do not accuse me of attacking, as I have not.

I will repeat, as you seem not to have understood: you *mentioned* a census return. You did not give the information from it, leaving others to cast around looking for what you were talking about, until I finally guessed right.

You're so very welcome, of course.

Census returns mentioned on thread, and I don't feel that I have anything to justify, but do feel the need to explain the reason for my lack of adherance to protocol, and for that I do apologise.
I am learning though, and mainly through the expertise of those more experienced than myself, and for that I thank you. Please do not feel obliged to help, however, if you feel the need to attack in the next breath - it is simply not necessary or kind.

Sorry, an apology is fine, claiming to have more problems than other people to justify things isn't. You don't know that, and in fact you don't have more problems than many people who help here have. Our time is valuable too. The fact that we enjoy researching these things doesn't mean we have nothing else to do.

Flick came up with a George in 1911 that was apparently the wrong one, but you didn't say that. I came up with the one you had, it seems.


It was not uncommon for a child of unmarried parents to name a maternal grandfather as father when they married, or to invent a father out of whole cloth. Sometimes focusing too much on the name on the marriage certificate can lead to false trails.


Eldest daughter of that George married George Henry Smyth

Name: Emily Garnham
Year of Registration: 1880
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Plomesgate
County: Suffolk
Volume: 4a
Page: 1483


1881 in Debenham:

George H. Smith 28
Emily Jane Smith 23
Mary Frost 15

1891 in Debenham:

George H Smyth 39
Emily Smyth 32
Charles H Smyth 6
Emily M Smyth 2
Nellie Smyth 1
Ada Smyth 1/12
Rosa Salter 22

No help appearing there.

See original posting re 1901 and 1911 census results. Please remember that some people who are trying to find out their family history are NOT experts. I really do appreciate all help and all suggestions, and I have found some input invaluable, and the community very supportive. My interest is genuine. However, having two autistic and challenging young people to care for, as well as elderly parents and a teenage daughter, I do not always have the time and / or concentration that other folk are fortunate enough to enjoy.
As I said. your help is sincerely appreciated, so thank-you.

Hadn't considered the grandson connection, although had considered the strong possibility of his being illegitimate. On the 1911 census when he is shown as being married to Annie Garnham is tantalising, as Annie has written her birth address as place of birth, although it is partially crossed out, and so not redable - even when inverted. Believe they were living as man and wife as status of marriage says married 5 years, no children.

Lydia was 42 in 1881 with youngest child 12. One might wonder at her having another child after that.

1871

George Garnham 48
Lydia Garnham 33
Emily Garnham 12
Georgiana Garnham 4
Maryann Garnham 2

One might wonder, however, whether George Jr was a grandson of George Sr.

If you check the 81 and 91 censuses, George Garnhams litter the landscape in Suffolk. ;)

That one as indeed a farmer, and prone to naming his children for himself. ;)

1881

Name: George Garnham
Age: 60
Estimated birth year: abt 1821
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Lydia
Gender: Male
Where born: Winston, Suffolk, England

Civil parish: Benhall
County/Island: Suffolk
Country: England

Street Address: Silverlace Green Farm House
Condition as to marriage: Married
Occupation: Farmer 81 Acres Employ 2 Men & 1 Boy

Name Age
George Garnham 60
Lydia Garnham 42
Georgianna Garnham 14
Mary A. Garnham 12
Laura Meadows 15


Lydia in 1891:

John U Capon 30
Georgianna M Capon 24
Alice K Capon 11
Ida A Capon 10
Millencent M Capon 1
George C Capon 3/12
Lydia Garnham 53
Samuel G Dunnett 31
Maryanne Dunnett 22
Morslo H Dunnett 8/12
Ellen Worby 15

Civil parish: Debenham
County/Island: Suffolk

1881
re above Will

Name: Lydia Garnham
Age: 42
Estimated birth year: abt 1839
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: George
Gender: Female
Where born: Monewden, Suffolk, England

Civil parish: Benhall
County/Island: Suffolk
Country: England

Street Address: Silverlace Green Farm House
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Farmers Wife

Registration district: Plomesgate
Sub-registration district: Aldeburgh
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
George Garnham 60
Lydia Garnham 42
Georgianna Garnham 14
Mary A. Garnham 12
Laura Meadows 15


View
Original
Record

View original image
View blank form

Save This Record
Attach this record to a person in your tree as a source record, or save for later evaluation.
Save

England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations),1861-1941
Name: George Garnham
Probate Date: 27 Feb 1886
Death Date: 29 Dec 1885
Death Place: Suffolk, England
Registry: Ipswich


Personal estate - £87 10 sh 0d


The Will of George Garnham late of Benhall in the County of Suffolk who died on 29th December 1885 at Benhall was proved at Ipswich by Lydia Garnham of Benhall Widow the Relict the sole Executrix

If you had already found the 1911 George I posted, why not dislose that, instead of having people hunt for him?

Do you know who the Annie in his household was?

You've only established no prior marriage if you've established that his name was actually George Frederick Garnham -- which we don't seem to have done!

A father with the same name stated on a groom's marriage certificate can be an indication of a Sr and Jr pattern. But it can also be an indication of an invented father. And there can be many reasons for that. ;)

Trial and error in 1911 -- Annie doesn't seem to be wife, sister or servant of George -- I don't pay to see what she is.

From marriage certificate, death certificate and from the odd crumb ( no pun intended ) of family knowlege of the gentleman.

Yes, found this one also believed to be him. mm indeed. No prior marriage anyway, have established that, and he was listed as batchelor on his marriage cert, which seems to be true

Does your knowledge of his occupation come from his marriage certificate / his children's birth certificates? i.e. not just from the census records you are assuming to be him.

1911 census - household transcription
Person: GARNHAM, George
Address: 45 Falkirk St Hoxton

.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GARNHAM, George Married
5 years M 28 1883 Baker Suffolk Ipswick VIEW
GARNHAM, Annie F 29 1882 Domestic London Bethnal GN VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, this is their marriage

Have enquired previously via a contact on Ancestry, who couldn't find him despite having a very good knowledge of Garnhams. In 1901 he was shown as age 29 rather than 19, and working as a baker in London's East End, with only fellow employees detailed ( no relatives shown )

This one in 1911 answers to a search for occupation "cook" and born in Ipswich:

GARNHAM GEORGE 1883 28 Shoreditch London

but he seems to be living with

GARNHAM ANNIE 1882 29 Shoreditch London

Hmm.


Marriages Sep 1905 ?
ASH Henry James St. Olave 1d 348
GARNHAM George Thomas St . Olave 1d 348
GRAY Annie St . Olave 1d 348
POWERS Amelia St . Olave 1d 348

-- that one would be this one:

Births Jun 1884
Garnham George Thomas St. Olave 1d 206