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I am struggling to find any BMD records for Adam Brown, my gggg grandfather.

Adam was a shoemaker in Hawick in the early 1800’s. He was married to Agnes Scott who was born c1782 in Ashkirk, Selkirkshire. Together they had the following children that I am aware of:-

Thomas born c1810, He married Jane Guthrie and was also a shoemaker

William born c1820. He married Isabel Ferguson and was also a shoemaker. He was my ggg grandfather

James born c1822

I think Adam and Agnes also had an earlier William and a Beatrix who died in 1816 and 1819 respectively, both probably as infants.

In the 1841 and 1851 Censuses, Agnes appears on her own in Hawick aged 55 and 68 respectively which means that Adam died or was divorced/separated from Agnes before 1841.

Can anyone help me?

Wrong Brown:
AGNES SCOTT
Marriages:
Spouse: ROBERT BROWN
Marriage: 23 DEC 1803 Selkirk, Selkirk, Scotland
M117786

Hi Liz 47 & Patricia

I have checked the IGI and the other trees on this site.

I am aware of the marriage of Agnes Scott to "Robert" Brown in 1803. They could be the right couple but I have too many doubts.
i) The OPR of this marriage indicates that this Agnes was from the parish of Melrose and "Robert" from the parish of Selkirk whereas the 1851 Census indicates that my Agnes was born in Ashkirk, Selkirkshire
iii) In all the references to my gggg grandfather, he is always called Adam not Robert

What do you think?
Colin

Col

I have relatives who changed their place of birth in census - as long as it is fairly near and in the same county, I always assume it is the correct person. Sorry I can't help about the marriage, have you tried googling "Hawick Family History Society" - I did this for one area, and the members were very helpful.
Regards, Liz

If you have your ggg grandfather, William's death certificate ....

Does it register his father's name as Adam ?


Your Agnes is a widow in the 1851 census.

Piece: SCT1851/789 Place: Hawick -Roxburghshire Enumeration District: 11
Civil Parish: Hawick Barony Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: Hawick Barony
Folio: 0 Page: 5 Schedule: 20
Address: Loan

Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
BROWN Agnes Head W F 68 Annuitant Selkirkshire - Ashkirk
BROWN William Son U M 30 Bootmaker (Closer) Roxburghshire - Hawick
BROWN James S. Son U M 28 Wlln Framework Knitter Roxburghshire - Hawick

Hi Helen

I have the death certificate of two of the couple's sons and in both it says the father's name was Adam Brown

The Census record you quote is correct. The William is my ggg grandfather and the son of Adam and Agnes

Colin

Hi Liz 47

Why would someone indicate to the Census enumerator that he was born somewhere he was not?

Colin

As there doesn't appear to be a marriage record for Adam Brown and Agnes Scott ... or births/baptism records for their children, It could be they were part of one of the many non conformist churches.

ie, Free, Baptist, Episcopalian etc.

These records are more difficult to find on the IGI as I think most of the records will be taken from the parish church registers or established church ... Church of Scotland.

I would do as Liz suggests and contact the Hawick Family History Society.

For ref:
There are no recorded children from the marriage of Robert Brown and Agnes Scott either.

Ashkirk
"A parish lying partly in Roxburgh and partly in Selkirkshire.

Hawick
"A considerable town and parish in the county of Roxburgh
http://www.scotborders.gov.uk/council/specialinterest/heartofhawick/18964.html

You need to find MI's for the area he died in.See who is buried in the same lair.Hoping it is not a new one.Or a poor relief record.

•Census returns (on microfilm)
•Monumental Inscriptions
•School Log Books/Admission Registers (available in digital format)
•Parish Records (on microfilm)
•Council Records
•Police Records
•Local newspapers (on microfilm)
•Poor law records (available in digital format)

1841
Name: Agnes Brown
Age: 55
Estimated birth year: abt 1786
Gender: Female
Where born: Roxburghshire, Scotland

Civil Parish: Hawick
County: Roxburghshire
Address: Sandbed
Occupation: Ind
Parish Number: 789
Household Members: Name Age
Agnes Brown 55
James Brown 16

Hi Ellen

Thats my Agnes in the1841 Census. Note that it says she was born in Roxburghshire in this one and in Ashkirk, Selkirkshire in the 1851 Census. I am inclined towards the latter. Am I right?

Regards Colin

Hi Helen

You are right in saying there are no recorded children by Robert Brown and Agnes Scott. Do you think that this might lend support to the possibility that they could be my gggg grandparents? Brown and Scott are very common names in the Scottish Borders.

Colin

My own hunch is that Robert Brown and Agnes Scott are not your family.

I would not be inclined to imagine the name Robert being changed to Adam ... although I know name changes do occur sometimes.

You say your Adam was a shoemaker to trade.

You could maybe try and find Robert Brown in the early census and see what his occupation is .... just for interest. It would be just like the thing if he also turned out to be a shoemaker !



Edit: Might this be them ? Small chance .. but worth keeping on the back burner.

1841 Census

Piece: SCT1841/799 Place: Melrose -Roxburghshire Enumeration District: 15
Civil Parish: Melrose Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: Ladhope
Folio: 16 Page: 11
Address: Island

Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
BROWN Robert M 65 Flesher Outside Census County (1841) Galashiels deleted as Village name
BROWN Agness F 55 Roxburghshire
SCOTT Jon M 20 Flesher Apprentice Roxburghshire Forename: Difficult to decipher
SCOTT Hellen F 15 Female Servant Roxburghshire

Note: Robert states he was not born in the county (Roxburghshire)
Could this fit in with the fact on Robert Brown and Agnes Scott's marriage record states Robert was from the county of Selkirk.

Hi Helen

I think the couple you have located in the 1841 Census are almost definitely the Robert Brown and Agnes Scott who were married in 1803 and came from the Selkirk and Melrose parishes respectively. Since my Agnes Brown is in Hawick in the 1841 Census, I am now pretty certain that the 1803 marriage is not my gggg grandparents'

Regrettably this means that I am no further forward in locating any BMD records for Adam Brown

Colin

Quite by accident, I have found an Adam Brown shoemaker living in Tynemouth in the 1841 and 1851 censuses. He gives his age as 61 and 75 respectively and indicates that he is a widower and was born in Scotland. He does not appear in the 1861 census which means he probably died between 1851 and 1861. Everthing seems to fit!!!
Does anyone know any more about this man or can they find out?

Have you searched on FreeBMD for a possible death for that Adam please? If you can find a likely one it may be worth buying the death certificate to check who the informant was - if only to elimainate him!

I have found an Adam Brown who was born in Jedburgh in Nov 1777. His parents were John Brown and Janet Scott. His siblings were
Agnes b 1770
Archibald b 1773
Betty b 1775
Could this be the man I am seeking?. Marriagewise he is about the right age for Agnes Scott viz 5 years older. The names of his siblings apart from Betty feature in future generations

Possible death for the Adam Brown living in Tynemouth.

Deaths Mar 1861
Brown Adam Tynemouth 10b 118

Not sure if the English death certificates record the deceased father's name.

Keep in mind: On the 1851 census in Scotland, Agnes states she is a 'widow'

Hi Helen

I am remembering that Agnes said she was a widow in 1851 Census but if she had been separated from her husband for a time she might not know for sure.

Can anybody tell me what the English statutory death records show before I order a copy of the record?

Colin