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BRIERLEY, James William Head Married 20 years M 40 1871 Hawker Greengrocers Lancs Manchester All Souls
BRIERLEY, Mary Ellen Wife Married 20 years F 39 1872 Lancs Manchester All Souls
BRIERLEY, James William Son M 11 1900 School Lancs Manchester All Souls
BRIERLEY, Nellie Daughter F 9 1902 Lancs Manchester All Souls
BRIERLEY, Lousia Daughter F 7 1904 Lancs Manchester All Souls
BRIERLEY, Alice Daughter F 5 1906 Lancs Manchester All Souls
BRIERLEY, Elsie Daughter F 2 1909 Leeds St Simon

RG number: RG14
Piece: 27058
Reference: RG14PN27058 RG78PN1549 RD500 SD4 ED5 SN151

Registration District: Leeds
Sub District: Kirkstall
Enumeration District: 5
Parish: Leeds

Address: 8 Greystone Place Leeds
County: Yorkshire (West riding)

Thank you MarieCeleste - that confirms the other item I found.

Angela, did you know that James had been in the army?

There is very brief record for him on Ancestry, 4 pages: the Attestation sheet, 2 copies of the Description sheet and an "Inside Sheet" which has two entries - one detailing a request for his address from a Pte H Brierley, Lancashire Fusiliers and the other detailing the reply sent giving James Brierleys address as 8 Greystone Place, Kirkstall Rd, Leeds.

The first entry is dated 30/9/1911 and the second 3/10/1911. James appears to have been an Army Pensioner.

James joined the Yorks and Lancaster Regiment in 1893. His Regimental No was 4407.

There are 4 James Brierley Army Records on find my past but I don't have credits to view.

Yes that is them on the 1911 in Leeds...the family say that Elsie was born in Manchester and not Leeds but was not registered till they came to Leeds...James William jnr was born in Manchester but the births of the other children were all in the workhouse at Prestwich.I found James William in the Sudan war 1896-98 and then in the Boer war 1899 but was a casualty at Ladysmith in 1900.I also found him on the electoral roll in Leeds but he dissappears in about 1914...Mary Ellen and James Williams last child Herbert was born in 1913 in Leeds.


I have to take mum to the wound clinic and then her daily walk..after that hubby will be ringing the bell for my time! Will be back to check about 5-30..hope you have found something good Potty and thank you Marieceleste for your input..much appreciated...x

Sorry, Angela, doesn't look as if I have found anything new for you.

I wonder if the H Brierley mentioned in the Army Record is the son Harold?

Hi Potty...yes I did..the H Brierley is my grandad Harold(who is listed as Arnold on the 1901.He joined up in 1911..What caused me confusion at one point was that James William Brierleys parents(James Brierley and Louisa Martha) had a son Harold in 1891 and James William and Mary Ellen had Harold in 1892..
I have 3 lots of service records for Harold Brierley and service records for an underage James William jnr in the army and also the one for James William snr that you have found...such a shame that there isnt more pages but big thanks to you for looking...
After 8 Greystone Place they lived at no 2 and then 27 Baker St,Kirkstall road Leeds...

Do you think that Mary Ellen was Russian?..I have tried all sorts of ways to spell her name..on the births she is either Crumby or Crumby...x

Not sure about her being Russian - after all Mary Ellen is such an English name. Of course, she could have anglized it from Maria Helena!

Wonder if she reverted to her mother's maiden name?

Not sure if this is any help

Name: Ellen Crummey
Gender: Female
Baptism/Christening Date:
Baptism/Christening Place:
Birth Date: 11 Jul 1872
Birthplace: DUMBARTON,DUNBARTON,SCOTLAND
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Hugh Crummey
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Catherine Duffy
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11496-3
System Origin: Scotland-ODM
Source Film Number: 6035516
Reference Number:
Collection: Scotland Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950


They also had the following children:

MARJORY CRUMEY - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 25 JAN 1869 Dumbarton, Dunbarton, Scotland
JOHN CRUMEY - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 08 OCT 1864 Dumbarton, Dunbarton, Scotland
BRIDGET CRUMEY - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 11 JUN 1870 Dumbarton, Dunbarton, Scotland
CATHERINE CRUMEY - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 27 FEB 1866 Dumbarton, Dunbarton, Scotland


Teresa

Using that spelling that Teresa has,this pops up as well?

1881
Name: Mary E. Crummey
Age: 8
Estimated birth year: abt 1873
Relation: Daughter
Mother's name: Margaret Crummey
Gender: Female
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Bradford
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 5 Parker Square
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Occupation: Scholar
Registration district: Prestwich
Sub-registration district: Newton
ED, institution, or vessel: 34
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Margaret Crummey 37
James Crummey 14
John E. Crummey 16
Mary E. Crummey 8

***************************************

Name: Margaret Crummey
Age: 37
Estimated birth year: abt 1844
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Galway, Ireland
Civil Parish: Bradford
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 5 Parker Square
Condition as to marriage: Windower

OH MY ..!
Teresa.

1871

.1871 England Census about James Crummey
Name: James Crummey
Age: 3
Estimated birth year: abt 1868
Relation: Son
Father's name: Hugh Crummey<<<Born Ireland...Engineer.
Mother's name: Margaret Crummey
Gender: Male
Where born: Manchester
Civil Parish: St Philip
Ecclesiastical parish: St Philip
Town: Manchester
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Manchester
Sub-registration district: Ancoats
ED, institution, or vessel: 49
Household schedule number: 233
Household Members:
Name Age
Hugh Crummey 34
Margaret Crummey 24
Daniel Crummey 8
John E Crummey 7
James Crummey 3


Births Dec 1872
Crummey Mary Ellen Manchester 8d 174

Could it be??

Maybe this is that one?

Marriages Mar 1890
CRUMMEY Mary Ellen S. Shields 10a 1028
Cunningham Henry S. Shields 10a 1028
WILSON John William S. Shields 10a 1028

Fanny perhaps this could be the marriage for them?

Marriages Dec 1861 (>99%)
Crummay Hugh Manchester 8d 223
Luckman Margaret Manchester 8d 223
Mather Isaac Manchester 8d 223
Waddington Mary Manchester 8d 223


and perhaps the death?


England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1915
Name: Hugh Crummey
Estimated birth year: abt 1836
Year of Registration: 1876
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Age at Death: 40
District: Prestwich
County: Lancashire
Volume: 8d
Page: 305

Teresa

Looks like this could be a mistranscription - a bad one at that!!


1861 England Census
about Hugh Clummey
Name: Hugh Clummey
Age: 15
Estimated birth year: abt 1846
Relation: Son
Spouse's name: Eliza Clummey
Mother's name: Elizabeth Brannon
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland

Civil Parish: Manchester
Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrew
Town: Manchester
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View image

Registration district: Manchester
Sub-registration district: London Road
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 529
Household Members:
Name Age
Elizabeth Brannon 69
Ann Brannon 13
Elizabeth Donatty 66
Hugh Clummey 15
Eliza Clummey 17

Teresa

This is 1861 for Margaret Luckman as per the above marriage to Crummay Hugh in 1861 - born in GALWAY


1861 England Census
about Margaret Luckman
Name: Margaret Luckman
Age: 17
Estimated birth year: abt 1844
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: Denis Luckman
Mother's name: Mary Luckman
Gender: Female
Where born: Co Galway, Ireland

Civil Parish: Manchester
Ecclesiastical parish: St Phillip
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View image

Registration district: Manchester
Sub-registration district: Ancoats
ED, institution, or vessel: 49
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 166
Household Members:
Name Age
Denis Luckman 53
Mary Luckman 50
Pat Luckman 25
Kate Luckman 23
Ann Luckman 21
Maria Luckman 19
Margaret Luckman 17
Ann Smith 24
Margaret McCulan 27
James McCulan 5
William McCulan 2
John Pigett 50


Teresa

The Mary Ellen from the marriage FBG found?

1891 England Census
about Mary Ellen Cunningham
Name: Mary Ellen Cunningham
Age: 28
Estimated birth year: abt 1863
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: Henry Cunningham
Gender: Female
Where born: Ireland

Civil Parish: Stranton
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
Town: West Hartlepool
County/Island: Durham
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Hartlepool
Sub-registration district: Hartlepool
ED, institution, or vessel: 47
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Henry Cunningham 30
Mary Ellen Cunningham 28
John McCann 30
Elizabeth Crummey 19

Good find on that Hugh Crummey death T.
In the right area of Prestwich where Mary Ellen married too,as they are on 1881 census.
Cant find a one of the others on 1891,can you?

Oooooo Potty,a different Mary Ellen as the one you found is born Ireland and 10 yrs earlier!

Might we be getting there??/Dare to hope?

John Crummey in 1891?

CRUMBY, John Ed Head Married M 27 1864 General Labourer
Manchester
CRUMBY, Eliza Wife Married F 23 1868
Manchester
CRUMBY, Emily Daughter F 2 1889
Manchester
CRUMBY, James Son M 0 (5M) 1891
Manchester

Registration District:
Manchester Sub District:
Central Enumeration District:
20 Ecclesiastical Parish:
St Andrew

Civil Parish:
Manchester Municipal Borough:
Manchester Address:
9, Dryden Street, Manchester County:
Lancashire


Births Sep 1864
CRUMMEY John Edward Manchester 8d 134


No birth of a John Edward CRUMBY to match.

Looks as if he married as Crumby:

Marriages Dec 1889 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BOOT Eliza Manchester 8d 446
Crumby John Edward Manchester 8d 446
Fleming Rose Manchester 8d 446
O'Garra John Manchester 8d 446

I think you have cracked it, T and FBG. If only we could find Mary Ellen in 1891!

1891 JOhn Edward


1901 England Census
about John Edward Crumby
Name: John Edward Crumby
Age: 36
Estimated birth year: abt 1865
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Eliza Crumby
Gender: Male
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Failsworth
Ecclesiastical parish: St John the Evangelist
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image

Registration district: Prestwich
Sub-registration district: Failsworth
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 78
Household Members:
Name Age
John Edward Crumby 36
Eliza Crumby 32
Emily Crumby 12
James Crumby 10
Cecelia Crumby 8
Hugh Crumby 7
John Edward Crumby 4

Teresa

1891 Possible? - she is keeping herself well hidden!

1891 England Census
about Mary Ellen Cramer
Name: Mary Ellen Cramer
Age: 20
Estimated birth year: abt 1871
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Female
Where born: Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Chorley
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
Town: Chorley
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image

Registration district: Chorley
Sub-registration district: Chorley
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary Riley 38
Ann Riley 14
John Riley 9
Mary Ellen Cramer 20

Teresa

Don't think that is her, T. That one is on 1871 and 1881 and there is a birth for her in Chorley.

Thanks Potty

Teresa

You have put a lot of work in Potty,so credit goes to you too...
We havent proved it beyond all doubt,but I thinks we have a 99% chance of it being this family and birth for her as it all fits especially with John Edward marrying as Crumby !
Births of all Hugh and Margarets children from 1871 and 1881.

Births Dec 1862
CRUMMY Daniel Manchester 8d 110
Births Sep 1864
CRUMMEY John Edward Manchester 8d 134
Births Mar 1868
Crummey James Manchester 8d 189
Births Dec 1872
Crummey Mary Ellen Manchester 8d 174

Been searching a poss remarriage or Death for Margaret Crummey/Crumby between 1881 and 1891 but so far nothing.