Find Ancestors

Would it have been possible (or legal) in the 1900s to be married in a Catholic church and not have it on record in the civil registers? I am trying to track back the family of my husband's grandmother. The 1911 census has her Christian name and date of birth, and they are living in the birth place of both of them. I have tried Find My Past, Free BMD, the IGI. Ancestry and Genes records. Without her marriage certificate I can't find out her surname, and hopefully names of parents. The 1911 census says they have been married for seven years, but I can't find even a possible marriage for his name alone.

What are their names?

Andy

If they have children a child's birth cert should give her maiden name.

I was thinking just of possibilities =- but need all the help I can get! He is James Rutherford, born Cramlington, Northumberland (specifically OId Hartley in the 1911 census) and she is Catherine born about 1882. His father, (also James) had the postoffice and newsagent in Cramlington, but in 1901 our grandfather James was living with his mother (there described as Head so presumably widowed) and brother in Elswick, Newcastle. 1911 he and Catherine are living in South Cramlington, he is an insurance agent. I have a probable death registration for Catherine in 1918 (we know she died in the flu epidemic then).

This is possibly the marriage for James and Catherine (Katherine)


Name: MCNALLY, Katherine
Registration District: Tynemouth
County: Northumberland
Year of Registration: 1905
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Spouse's last name: Not available before 1912
Volume No: 10B
Page No: 531

Marriage Match Katherine Mcnally married one of the following people


JACKSON, Robert


RUTHERFORD, James


WILSON, John

RUTHERFORD, James Head Married M 35 1876 Insurance Agent Old Hartley North Shields Northd VIEW
RUTHERFORD, Catherine Wife Married 7 years 28 1883 Cramlington Cramlington Northd VIEW
RUTHERFORD, John Son Child M 5 1906 Seaton Delavel Seaton Delavel Northd VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
30842 Reference:
RG14PN30842 RG78PN1762 RD559 SD6 ED5 SN32

Registration District:
Tynemouth Sub District:
Cramlington Enumeration District:
5 Parish:
Cramlington

Address:
20 Gillis's Buildings South Cramlington Cramlington

There's a bride missing off this one?

Marriages Jun 1905
JACKSON Robert Tynemouth 10b 531
RUTHERFORD James Tynemouth 10b 531
SHERRINGTON Mary Ann M Tynemouth 10b 531

Jan - you've got my missing bride!

Hi MarieCeleste
Yes Katherine is missing from Freebmd but I found her on FMP.

If the above marriage is the correct one, then below may be Catherine/Katherine/Kate in the 1901 census.
Though its probably best to get the marriage certificate to make sure who her father was.

1901 census

RABSON, Richard Head Married M 28 1873 Architects Assistant
Greystead
Northumberland VIEW
RABSON, Eleanor Wife Married F 28 1873
Gateshead
Durham VIEW
RABSON, Jean Daughter F 3 1898
Gateshead
Durham VIEW
RABSON, Richard Son M 1 1900
Gateshead
Durham VIEW
RABSON, William Son M 0 (8 MOS) 1901
Gateshead
Durham VIEW
MCNALLY, Elizabeth Servant Single F 23 1878 General Serv Domestic
Cramlington
Northumberland VIEW
MCNALLY, Kate Servant Single F 17 1884 Nurse Domestic
Cramlington
Northumberland


RG number:
RG13 Piece:
4754 Folio:
127 Page:
55

Registration District:
Gateshead Sub District:
Gateshead Enumeration District:
33 Ecclesiastical Parish:
Christ Church

Civil Parish:
Gateshead Municipal Borough:
Address:
1, Vernon Parade, Gateshead County:
Durham

1901 England Census about Kate Mc Nally
Name: Kate Mc Nally
Age: 17
Estimated birth year: abt 1884
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Cramlington, Northumberland, England
Civil Parish: Gateshead
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Gateshead
Sub-registration district: Gateshead
ED, institution, or vessel: 33
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 354
Household Members:
Name Age
Richard Ralson 28
Eleanor Ralson 28
Sean Ralson 3
Richard Ralson 1
William Ralson 8 Months
Elizabeth Mc Nally 23
Kate Mc Nally 17

Jan - thank you! that is almost certainly them, and I shall send off for the certificate to make sure - and thank you for the possible 1901 census record too. It is interesting to see - if it is her - that she had a possible sister working with her. that will help in checking earlier records.
Lindsey - thanks for the advice to get their son's birth certificate which I hadn't thought of - as he was of course my father-in-law of course I knew the details and just sent for the birth registration record. I might get his birth certificate now for confirmation. and thanks for the confirmation about the 1901 census.

1891?

Cath McNally
Age: 7
Estimated birth year: abt 1884
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: Frank McNally
Mother's name: Mary McNally
Gender: Female
Where born: Cramlington, Northumberland, England

Civil Parish: Cramlington
Ecclesiastical parish: Cramlington
Town: Cramlington Colliery
County/Island: Northumberland
Registration district: Tynemouth
Sub-registration district: Earsdon

Frank McNally 48
Mary McNally 48
Frk McNally 20
Arthur McNally 15
Eliz Ann McNally 12
Cath McNally 7
Margt McNally 9
John McNally 5
James McNally 1

1881
Frank Mc Nally
Age: 37
Estimated birth year: abt 1844
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Mary Mc Nally
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland

Civil Parish: Cramlington
County/Island: Northumberland
Country: England

Street address: Brick Yard
Condition as to marriage: Married
Occupation: General Labourer
Registration district: Tynemouth
Sub-registration district: Blyth

Frank Mc Nally 37
Mary Mc Nally 34
Mary Jane Mc Nally 13
Frank Mc Nally 9
Aurther Mc Nally 5
Elizabeth Ann Mc Nally 2

Thank you Janice - this will be a great help.

You can check out local RO indices at:
http://www.northeastbmd.org.uk/

In particular, a search at:
http://www.northtyneside.gov.uk/marriage-register.shtml

McNALLY, Katherine
RUTHERFORD, James
Marriage date: 1905
Register Book, Entry Number: W78, 22


Re "Would it have been possible (or legal) in the 1900s to be married in a Catholic church and not have it on record in the civil registers? "

Not really - it was illegal for the priest. There were really two ways to go.

Firstly, if the church was an approved building for marriages, then the local registrar would attend the ceremony. The couple would sign his register to conclude the civil side of the marriage. There was some proscription on the form of the religious ceremony. This was the status of all non-conformist marrs (excl jews, quakers) pre 1898, but after 1898 other non-conformist were allowed to keep their own official registers. RCs only got to keep official registers 1980-ish.

The other way to go was first have the official marriage in a rego office or by a C of E priest. Then have a second religious ceremony at an RC church, usually the same day. The RO marr needn't have taken place in the same rego district as the church.

There is one side-effect here. Since the RC church register isn't an official one (pre-1980), it really can say anything. I've seen one RC marr entry where the priest later added their first 2 kids details, then "1906 - moved to Bradford".

mgnv - Thanks - I thought I'd posted a reply to you but it isn't there - maybe I didn't click submit!

I did know the need for civil registration (we had the local registrar witness for our marriage) but I really was grasping at straws - I had had such difficulty in tracking down James' marriage that getting married but not getting the registrar records seemed to be a possibility., However, it looks as if the new Marriage Match has found them.

We knew my husband's grandfather was a convert but no-one knew when - very possibly on marriage - I look forward to seeing from the marriage certificate where they were married!

I still find it strange that my searches, which included those for just James' name, didn't reveal the marriage as I did include several goes on the various sites with his name alone.

Thanks for the useful northeas research address - have added it to favourites as I have plenty of north-east relatives to check on!

I would guess the W in the local census ref referred to the registrar's register for some subdistrict beginning with W - Wallsend & Whitley spring to mind.
In this case, it would be either a rego office marr, or one the registrar attended (such as an RC marr) - you''ll need the cert to tell (well, maybe not, but it's by far the least bother).

mgnv - thanks - I have sent for the certificate, but the combination of snow and Christmas may hold it up a bit, so I shall have to use willpower not to fillin all the potential new information I have!

Just as well I didn't add anything - I have just received the marriage certificate and it is not my husband's grandfather! Wrong occupation, wrong name and occupation of father, right district, even getting married in the church his father used to go to! I will hang on to the certificate, as there are extended cousins living in the area and James was a popular family name, and I may be able to tie it in with one of them. Thank you all anyway