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Thanks, it seems like a good site.

Is there any way of finding out why she was in prison?

WOuld there be records anywhere for this?

Thanks again.

Jansmith, you asked why I thought it was Charlotte Bowcock and not Charlotte Mellor, well I was just going off this post by Ginny really -

I thought it was a tree for my great-great grandad Willaim Henry Morris and that because the chidlren were right, it meant all the other details like spouse and parents were also right . :-(


"This is from a tree on Ancestry which may give you a clue but it's not conclusive!

William Henry Morris Birth Mar 1854 in Salford,Manchester,England Death Dec 1910 in Manchester,Lancashire,England


Parents Samuel Morris 1823 – 1889
Ellen Brooks 1831 – 1872

Charlotte Bowcock 1855 – Marriage 1874
Ellen Morris 1877 – Lavinia Morris 1879 – Mary Alice Morris 1881 – 1881 James Morris 1885 – Hannah Morris 1890 – John Morris 1895 –

please feel free to delete my other threads if they are getting in the way, I don't want to clog your system up and you're right it saves information being repeated.

just looking at those names, from what I have looked at they are 2 different families, but I could be wrong. The only way you are going to find out Joe is to get that birth certificate for James. Without reading thu the 3 threads again I think you said he was your (gt?) grandfather whose age and father you have presumably previously confirmed from his marriage certificate

the other Charlotte - or a 3rd one?

ELLISON, Thomas Head Married M 50 1831 Canvasser Agent
York City OF
Yorkshire VIEW
ELLISON, Elizabeth Wife Married F 49 1832
Manchester
Lancashire VIEW
MORRIS, Clara E Daughter Single F 17 1864 Rug Weaver
Manchester
Lancashire VIEW
MORRIS, Mary Louisa Daughter Single F 15 1866 Scholar
Manchester
Lancashire VIEW
MORRIS, Fred Son Single M 12 1869 Scholar
Manchester
Lancashire VIEW
MORRIS, William Hy Son Married M 21 1860 Tinplate Worker
Manchester
Lancashire VIEW
MORRIS, Charlotte Daughter In Law Married F 18 1863 Tinplate Worker Wife
Manchester
Lancashire VIEW
RG number:
RG11 Piece:
3887 Folio:
16 Page:
26

Registration District:
Barton upon Irwell Sub District:
Stretford Enumeration District:
Ecclesiastical Parish:

Civil Parish:
Stretford Municipal Borough:
Address:
14, Alma Square, Stretford County:
Lancashire

Ann,

It's good advice , yes I have my great grandfather's marriage certificate from 1903, with his age given as 18 , and the birthdate of Jul-Aug-Sept 1885 for Manchester ( Vol 8D page 187) is the likeliest accurate date of birth we have for him. We need to get this cerificate I suppose. thanks again.

oh dear :-(

I've used FreeDBM and found two entries, both of which could be possible.
His age was given as 16 in the 1901 census.


Births Sep 1885 (>99%)
Morris James Manchester 8d 187 Scan available - click to view
Births Dec 1886 (>99%)
Morris James Manchester 8d 26

According to the 1901 census, Hannah was born in Openshaw (as was James)

Chorlton registration district covers Openshaw, so this looks like her birth


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Jun 1890 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Morris Hannah Chorlton 8c 755


This certificate will give you the information you need in confirming Charlotte's maiden name.

This is fantastic Sue, thanks a million!

I'm sorry, please can you tell me where I should obtain Birth Certificates

for Hannah?

You can order online here

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp

The cost is £9.25 per cert.

You will need to register, and be sure to tick the box asking if the GRO reference( volume and page number) is known.

Joe

Hannah was age 12 in 1901 so born c 1889. 1890 is too late. You were given the index ref for Hannah born in 1889 (dec qtr) on your other thread with reasons why

Have you proved any of the info you have preceding fing James as it is not exactly an uncommon name

I assume you have no certificate proof of anything

Thanks Sue,

I know Ann, but there are no entries for a Hannah Morris in 1889 and I known she was born in openshaw like her brother James.

We have James' marriage certificate for 1903 and know for certain he married Ethel Carter and that his father is WIlliam Henry Morris.
We know the 1901 census is correct for them because they are at the same address, 16 Malpas Street. It gives WIlliam Henry's age as 48 and James' as 16. ( He was 18 when he married).

I don't know what else to do? :-(

I think the birth certificate for Hannah seems more certain because in 1885 there are two or three JAmes Morris entries for Chorlton, and it's an expensive gamble to take, at 10 pounds a certifcicate.

I'm open to your help and advice, and would really like to be certain before going ahead and paying for a birth certificate.

I am pretty sure that the entry for James Morris at Chorlon, 8c 727 , Jun 1885 is right but like you say, the fact there are several James's in that year doesn't help.

Joe.

Hi Joe,

There is also a Hannah Morris christened/baptism for 2nd April 1890 parents William Henry Morris and mother Charlotte in Bradford Lancashire. This is on the family search site.

Costa

how about getting this birth cert to conform mmn

Births Jun 1879
Morris Lavinia Prestwich 8d 389

I don't think they will do a check for names any more at Southport. The local registry office might

1911 copied from other thread

James in 1911 with brother John living with him
MORRIS, James Head Married M 27 1884 Coal Miner Hewer Lancs M/c

MORRIS, Ethel Wife Married
7 years F 24 1887 Lancs M/c Manchester
MORRIS, William Son M 7 1904 Lancs M/c Manchester
MORRIS, James Son M 4 1907 Lancs M/c Manchester
MORRIS, Thomas Son M 1 1910 Lancs M/c Manchester
MORRIS, John Brother Single M 16 1895 Railway Contractors Labourer Lancs M/c Manchester
BLAKE, Nellie Niece F 11 1900 Lancs M/c Manchester
Registration District:
Prestwich Sub District:
Bradford Enumeration District:
7 Parish:
North Manchester

Address:
56 Chatsworth St Beswick


Looks like Nellie could be Lavinia's child
Marriages Dec 1898
Blake David Prestwich 8d 563 ***
Hayhurst Thomas Frank Prestwich 8d 563
Morris Livina Prestwich 8d 563 ******

Thickett Mary Ann Prestwich 8d 563

Think that birth cert may be the one to get ,here she is in 1901 Lavinia Name: Lavinia Blake
Age: 22
Estimated birth year: abt 1879
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: David Blake
Gender: Female
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: North Manchester
Ecclesiastical parish: Clayton St Cross
Household Members:
Name Age
David Blake 25
Lavinia Blake 22
Nelly Blake 1

County/Island: Lancashire

Jan
That is pretty amazing, I had found Lavinia in 1901 also married to David Blake and her daughter Nelly staying with James and Ethel Morris in the 1911 census. Hats off to you there, and I am of the same mind that her birth cert would be a safe bet. What do you think, this one a safer bet than the Hannah Morris in 1890?
Do you think that an online request would allow me to say that it's only right if the parents are called William Henry and Charlotte?

ps-

Thanks Costa and Mel!

this is the Hannah 1889 birth you were given which fits better with age 2

Births Dec 1889 (>99%)
Morris Hannah Barton I. 8c 632

so I agree that Lavinia is a much safer bet