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I find it worrying to see that you seem happy to 'think' the records 'may' be the right people, when definite info could be found by investing £9.25 in the birth cert.

I wouldn't recommend your approach to anyone intending to compile an accurate family tree

Janice did you get any of the certs please?

Mel

This is James and Sophia and there is no Elizabeth.

1871 England Census
about James Upsdell Name: James Upsdell
Age: 34
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1837
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sophia Upsdell
Gender: Male
Where born: Peckham, Surrey, England
Civil parish: St Mary Newington
Ecclesiastical parish: Trinity
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: St Saviour Southwark
Sub-registration district: Trinity Newington
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Household schedule number: 61
Household Members: Name Age
James Upsdell 34
Sophia Upsdell 33
Arthur H Upsdell 7
Alice M Upsdell 4

Upsdell Elizabeth Sarah - Camberwell 1d 493

Look at the last posting I put up for Sarah Ann Upsdell married to Dennis Ranson. There you will see I have put her marriage with her fathers name. then the 1871 census has Elizabeth Ranson who is really Elizabeth Sarah Upsdell. On the 1861 census she is 4 and on the 1871 census she is 14.

Mel

NO Janice you want her birth cert. Which somone put up on the begining of the thread.

As Flick said James could just be name given to save face.

thanks for all your replies, I think perhaps James Upsdell married to Sophia may be the right people. The area is correct and his occupation ties in with the family, the problem now is trying to establish their connection to Elizabeth Sarah, getting a married certificate may help, thanks again to you all

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Sarah Ann Upsdell Name: Sarah Ann Upsdell
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: 13 th May 1838 ********
Baptism Date: 17 Jun 1838
Father's Name: William Upsdell LABOURER
Mother's Name: Ann Upsdell
Parish or Poor Law Union: Camberwell St Giles
Borough: Southwark

Address Melon Ground Peckham***

YES


1871 England Census
about Elizabeth Ransom Name: Elizabeth Ransom
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Deanie Ransom
Mother's Name: Sarah A Ransom
Gender: Female
Where born: Peckham, Surrey, England
Civil parish: Camberwell St Giles
Ecclesiastical parish: St George
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Registration district: Camberwell
Sub-registration district: St George
ED, institution, or vessel: 21
Household schedule number: 266
Household Members: Name Age
Deanie Ransom 27
Sarah A Ransom 35
Elizabeth Ransom 14 1857*******************
Mary A S Ransom 5
Emily Ransom 3
William E Ransom 1

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about Sarah Ann Upsdell Name: Sarah Ann Upsdell Spinster**
Spouse Name: Dennis Ranson Bachelor**
Spouse Age: Full Age
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 27 Aug 1865
Parish: St George, Camberwell
County: Surrey
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: William Upsdell
Spouse Father Name: Edward Ranson

Both their addresses are down as Neate Street. ******


This is the census for Lizzey but look at the age of Sarah's mother 57 too old to have had a 4 year old.

1861 England Census
about Sarah Spidell Name: Sarah Spidell
[Sarah Upsdell?]
[Sarah Upsdell]
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: Abt 1839
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William Spidell
Mother's Name: Ann Spidell
Gender: Female
Where born: St Geler Cambe, Surrey, England
[St Giles Camberwell, Surrey, England]

Civil parish: Camberwell
Ecclesiastical parish: st mary magdalene
County/Island: Surrey

Registration district: Camberwell
Sub-registration district: Peckham
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 92
Household Members: Name Age
William Spidell 56 Day Labourer Reads clearly Upsdell*******
Ann Spidell 57
Henry Spidell 24
Sarah Spidell 22
Jacob Spidell 16
Lezzey Spidell 4 down as dau to the head of the house

1881 England Census
about B. J. Morez Name: B. J. Morez
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: E. S. Morez
Gender: Male
Where born: Camberwell

Civil parish: Camberwell
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 188 Neate St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Carman

Registration district: Camberwell
Sub-registration district: St George
ED, institution, or vessel: 24
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
B. J. Morez 24
E. S. Morez 25
E. S. A. Morez 1 month************

I think you need to buy Elizabeth's birth cert to find out who her mother was as I think she may be the daughter of Sarah Ann Upsdell base born.

1841 England Census
about James Upsdell Name: James Upsdell
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1834
Gender: Male
Where born: Surrey, England

Civil parish: St Giles Camberwell
Hundred: Brixton (Eastern Division)
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: View image

Registration district: Camberwell
Sub-registration district: Camberwell
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Abraham Upsdell 25
James Upsdell 7
Emily Upsdell 23
Banny Upsdell 5

Definately read Upsdell but is also William and not James But the witnesses to her marriage were J Upsdell and S Upsdell so could have been brother and sister.

1861 England Census
about Lezzey Spidell Name: Lezzey Spidell
[Lizzey Upsdell]
[Lezzey Upsdell?]
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: Abt 1857
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William Spidell
Mother's Name: Ann Spidell
Gender: Female
Where born: St Geler Cambe, Surrey, England
[St Giles Camberwell, Surrey, England]

Civil parish: Camberwell
Ecclesiastical parish: st mary magdalene
County/Island: Surrey

Street Address: Rye Common

Occupation:

Registration district: Camberwell
Sub-registration district: Peckham
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 92
Household Members: Name Age
William Spidell 56
Ann Spidell 57
Henry Spidell 24
Sarah Spidell 22
Jacob Spidell 16
Lezzey Spidell 4

Piece: 383; Folio: 179; Page: 19

The father's name on the marriage record could have been invented

Her birth cert is the way to get accurate info

James Upsdell

England Marriages, 1538–1973

record title: England Marriages, 1538–1973
groom's name: Benjamin John Morez
bride's name: Elizabeth Sarah Upsdell
marriage date: 04 Jun 1876
marriage place: St. John, Walworth, Surrey, England
groom's father's name: William Thomas Morez
bride's father's name: James Upsdell
groom's marital status: Single
bride's marital status: Single
indexing project (batch) number: M01112-3
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 291744

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Elizabeth Sarah Upsdele Name: Elizabeth Sarah Upsdele
Year of Registration: 1857
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Camberwell
County: Greater London, London, Surrey
Volume: 1d
Page: 493

James Upsdell

England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
birth: 12 Aug 1834
residence: Surrey, England
parents: Abraham Upsdell, Emma

record title: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
name: James Upsdell
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 04 Sep 1834
baptism/christening place: PECKHAM HANOVER CHAPEL-INDEPENDENT,CAMBERWELL,SURREY,ENGLAND
birth date: 12 Aug 1834
father's name: Abraham Upsdell
mother's name: Emma
indexing project (batch) number: C09757-1
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 825327

James Upsdell

England and Wales Census, 1881
birth: 1836 — Peckham, Surrey, England
residence: Newington, Surrey, England
spouse: Sophia Upsdell

record title: England and Wales Census, 1881
name: James Upsdell
age: 45
gender: Male
birth year: 1836
birthplace: Peckham, Surrey, England
relationship to head of household: Head
marital condition: Married
profession / occupation: Carman
address: 28 Uxbridge St
census place: Newington, Surrey, England
record type: Household
family history library film: 1341121
the national archives reference: RG11
piece / folio: 0534 / 98
page number: 29

William Morez

England and Wales Census, 1881
birth: 1831 — Bermondsey, Surrey, England
residence: Camberwell, Surrey, England
spouse: E. Morez

record title: England and Wales Census, 1881
name: William Morez
age: 50
gender: Male
birth year: 1831
birthplace: Bermondsey, Surrey, England
relationship to head of household: Head
marital condition: Married
profession / occupation: Labourer
address: 4 Walters Cott
census place: Camberwell, Surrey, England
record type: Household
family history library film: 1341163
the national archives reference: RG11
piece / folio: 0698 / 109
page number:

Benjamin John Morez

England Marriages, 1538–1973
parents: William Thomas Morez
spouse: Elizabeth Sarah Upsdell
marriage: 04 Jun 1876 — St. John, Walworth, Surrey, England

record title: England Marriages, 1538–1973
groom's name: Benjamin John Morez
bride's name: Elizabeth Sarah Upsdell
marriage date: 04 Jun 1876
marriage place: St. John, Walworth, Surrey, England
groom's father's name: William Thomas Morez
bride's father's name: James Upsdell
groom's marital status: Single
bride's marital status: Single
indexing project (batch) number: M01112-3
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 291744

Elizabeth Upsdale

England and Wales Census, 1881
birth: 1866 — Shoreditch, Middlesex, England
residence: Shoreditch, London, Middlesex, England
parents: David Upsdale, Emily Upsdale

freebmd have the name different ....


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Jun 1876 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hughes John St. Saviour 1d 222
...................MOREY Benjamin John - St Saviour 1d 222
MORTON Emily St. Saviour 1d 222
.....................Upsdell Elizabeth Sarah - St Saviour 1d 222