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You're very welcome!

What I'd find really interesting is if you got the marriage certificate for Sarah Spink, so we could know for sure whether that was Sarah Spink daughter of George and Phoebe where Margaret Spink was living in 1881.

Let us know if you do!

Thank you for all of your help it has been most helpful and yes the Shambles is quire lovely have been there long before I started to look for my ancestors and I was impressed by the City ,but of cause in the 1880's it was different to now .
Thinking about what was said by my grandmother when she came to Walsall in (The Black Country) she expected every thing and everyone to be black, but apparently she only went back to York once inher life .

Once more thank you both very much.

The Kleins in 1871; doesn't tell us anything:

John Kalien 42 - lodging house keeper and labourer
Eve Kalin 46
Elizabeth Kalin 15
John Kalin 13
Joseph Smith 50

Civil parish: St Mary Castle Gate
County/Island: Yorkshire
Registration district: York


Possibly Margaret Spink was more a foster child than a visitor in 1881.

That Margaret Spink in 1881 visiting John and Eve Klein in Acaster Malbis -- the Kleins were from Germany, and he was an Ag Lab. What a strange and annoying situation -- whoever that Margaret Spink was, to be in such a disconnected place on census night!

But it seems to be her in 1871 with Sarah's family:

Pheobe Spink 51
William Spink 14
Thomas Spink 11
Henerietta Broom 10 (Brown)
Margret Spink 3 - granddaughter, born Aberford


I wonder whether she just didn't remember Aberford and thought it was Castleford?

The story seems to have been turned backwards -- born Margaret Spink, stepfather was James Turner -- not born Margaret Turner, father was James Spink.

But because she married as Spink, she called her father James Spink.

So much coincidence, it becomes too much.

a pic of 19 The Shambles

http://www.travelpod.com/travel-photo/jcastellan/on_holiday/1221404400/the-shambles.jpg/tpod.html

In 1881 there were 3 households besides Sarah Turner at that address -- and at 18 there was in fact a butcher ;) -- and also at 21 and 23 and no doubt other numbers on other pages.

Yikes! For real!

Now if we could just find Margaret / Maggie herself.

I was trying under both names (all those little details help) -- girls were certainly often recorded in the census as Maggie.

I had no idea what The Shambles was, so I googled.

http://www.britainexpress.com/cities/york/shambles.htm

That's quite something, if she lived there -- it would certainly be something one would talk about, I think!

Close ?

I think Janey's cracked it.

Margaret may well have grown up using her stepfather's surname of Turner but reverted to her real name when marrying.

I think you may be getting close with Sarah Turner in
1881 living in the shambles thinking about it thats where Grandmother said her mom lived
Thanks Janey

The 1861 Spink household in Aberford has a daughter Sarah born c1848.


This looks like her in 1871:

Name: Sarah Spink
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
Relation: Servant
Where born: Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Lotherton Cum Aberford
County/Island: Yorkshire
Registration district: Tadcaster


1881 -- I wonder

Name: Sarah Turner
Age: 32
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1849
Relation: Head
> Where born: Aberford, Yorkshire, England
Condition as to marriage: Married
Occupation: Charwoman

> Civil parish: York St Crux
County/Island: Yorkshire
Street Address: 19 Shambles
Registration district: York


No one else in household.


Possible marriage?

Marriages Sep 1873
SMITH Sarah Leeds 9b 567
? Spink Sarah Leeds 9b 567
? TURNER James Leeds 9b 567
Willstrop Frederick Leeds 9b 567


Both brides were Sarah! unfortunately -- but I can't find a Sarah or Frederick Willstrop to match in 1881, to check who married whom. But a Sarah and a Frederick both died many years later in Ludlow, and the Sarah was born c1845.

Hi both,
My grandmother Margaret's daughter only ever said that her mother was born Margaret Turner in Castleford Yorks, so therefore I took it for granted that it was true because at the time I wasn't into family trees .
After Grandmother died I asked my Father about his Grandmother and he told me the same as hisMother that" Maggie" as he called her was named Turner befor she married Henry Cranage.
When in 2009 I started doing the Family tree I found out that her maiden name was in fact was Spink.
Then when I found a second cousin on here she also said that "Maggie's" maiden name was Turner.
And that I am afraid is all that I know.

"Where does the knowledge of the name Turner come from ?"

I know, Mike, that's what I've been hoping Bertett will go into in just a little more detail.

From Margaret's daughter, Bertett's grandmother ... but surely she said more than these few words ...

"If mother unmarried , the child wouldn't be registered as Turner"
[if mother were Spink]

True -- but we've never actually been told the child was registered as Turner, or found a registration as Turner ...

And actually, women were known to register children in their fathers' names just by not letting on they weren't married, or pretending the father's surname was their own birth surname ...

It just isn't entirely certain from the little we have to go on here that Margaret's mother was the Turner.

So Bertett, anything else you can expand on, please do!

Thank you both for your help it is very kind of you and gives me something to mull over.

goodnight to you both and thanks again

bertett

Plausible theory but why would poster be asking for info on Margaret Turner if she was known as Spink from the age of 3, and married as Spink.
If mother unmarried , the child wouldn't be registered as Turner
Where does the knowledge of the name Turner come from ?

Well, I guess my theory might be that Margaret's mother was Mary Ann Brown who adopted her stepfather's name Spink ... and maybe the real father was a James Turner ...

James Spink seems a little fictitious, and we all know how people made mash-ups for fathers when they married. ;)

And the Spinks do have that Mary Ann Brown, daughter of Phoebe before marriage to George Spink --

Marriages Sep 1844
BROWN Phoebe Tadcaster 23 553
SPINK George Tadcaster 23 553

-- in 1851:

Name: Mary Ann Brown
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1842
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: George Spink
Mother's Name: Phobe Spink
Where born: Aberford, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Aberford

George Spink 45
Phobe Spink 34
Mary Ann Brown 9
Sarah Spink 2

So where does Turner come in ?

Was this her mother's name ?

Ah -- but we don't know whether my Margaret Spink is the right one at all! ;)

Janey, the location correction was not aimed at you, but the poster.

Name: Margaret Cranage
Death Registration Month/Year: 1938
>> Age at death (estimated): 71
Registration district: Walsall
Inferred County: Staffordshire
Volume: 6b
Page: 534

This makes her year of birth 1866 or 1867, not 1868, if accurate.


Mike ... 16-yr-olds have always had babies ... and an unmarried mother who married after the birth is likely to have been younger rather than older ...

Children of George and Phoebe Spink

. JOHN SPINK -
Gender: Male Christening: 31 OCT 1852 Aberford, Yorkshire, England

2. SARAH SPINK -
Gender: Female Christening: 22 FEB 1852 Aberford, Yorkshire, England

3. WILLIAM SPINK -
Gender: Male Christening: 31 DEC 1856 Aberford, Yorkshire, England

4. HANNAH SPINK -
Gender: Male Christening: 18 JAN 1846 Aberford, Yorkshire, England

5. THOMAS SPINK - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 04 APR 1860 Aberford, Yorkshire, England


The eldest would only be 16 when Margaret was born !