Find Ancestors

Margee, I realize she must've known him, unless she was a mail-order bride.

I was wondering if she knew him in the >UK<! It doesn't look like he was a Barnado's boy as he was married before emigrating to the US.

Ozi

Just to note that Barnardo's didn't send kids to the US -- Commonwealth only. ;)


I don't know whether Vicky's seen the Canadian records in the Home Children database, so I'll just add them here:

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/home-children/001015-100.01-e.php

Surname: HALLIDAY
Given Name: Sarah
Age: 12
Sex: F
Ship: Corinthian
Year of Arrival: 1913
Departure Port: London
Departure Date: 25 September 1913
Arrival Port: Quebec
Arrival Date: 5 October 1913
Party: Dr. Barnardo's
Destination: Peterborough, Ontario, Canada
Comments: 119 girl domestics with Mrs Lloyd as matron
Source: Library and Archives Canada/Bibliothèque et Archives Canada
Reference: RG76 C 1 a
Microfilm: T-4805
Type of Record: Passenger Lists/Listes de passagers
Group of Children Traveling Together

Surname: HALLIDAY
Given Name: Mary
Age: 15
Sex: F
Ship: Corinthian
Year of Arrival: 1913
Departure Port: London
Departure Date: 25 September 1913
Arrival Port: Quebec
Arrival Date: 5 October 1913
Party: Dr. Barnardo's
Destination: Peterborough, Ontario, Canada
Comments: 119 girl domestics with Mrs Lloyd as matron
Source: Library and Archives Canada/Bibliothèque et Archives Canada
Reference: RG76 C 1 a
Microfilm: T-4805
Type of Record: Passenger Lists/Listes de passagers
Group of Children Traveling Together


If you google

barnardo's hazelbrae

you'll find lots of info about the home in Peterborough that was the "staging" ground for home children arriving in Canada.

We're still looking for Sarah, do I have that right?

Just summarizing,

"John Halliday 1860 (coal miner from Northumberland) he married Mary Smith1863 died1893 as she died young"

but girls who were 12 and 15 in 1913 could not have been her daughters.

Marriages Sep 1888
Halliday John Sunderland 10a 732
Smith Mary Jane Sunderland 10a 732

Births Dec 1889
Halliday Joseph Sunderland 10a 560

Marriages Jun 1898
Caley Alice Ann Sunderland 10a 929
Halliday John Sunderland 10a 929

Births Sep 1898
Halliday Mary Jane Sunderland 10a 647

Births Dec 1900
Halliday Sarah Ann Sunderland 10a 630

Deaths Sep 1907
HALLIDAY Alice Ann 40 Sunderland 10a 352

which all matches the 1901 household:

John Halliday 41
Alice Ann Halliday 33
Joseph Halliday 11
Mary J Halliday 2
Sarah A Halliday 5 MO

The Ontario marriage that appears to be Vera Ann Halliday -- there's no such birth in England. But there's also no John Halliday + Alice Hogg marriage (or Alice Hogg + Caley marriage) in England.

Either the Vera Ann Halliday who married Ross Holtom was someone else altogether, or it actually is Sarah and the entry is just illegible (not uncommon for Ontario marriages, although I haven't seen that one) and the person with the Ross Holtom info has just copied what Ancestry transcribed it as.

1911

HALLIDAY MARY 1899 12 Sunderland Durham

I don't see Sarah in the 1911.

HALLIDAY JOHN 1860 51 Sunderland Durham ?


Is it Joseph you're descended from? --

Name: Joseph Halliday ?
Birth Date: abt 1890
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1958
Age at Death: 68
Registration district: Durham Eastern (includes Ryhope)
Registration County: Durham
Volume: 1a
Page: 431

:-) Thank you all once again for your help I shall sit and look through all this information today and check out the website given.

Vicky x :D

Oh dear, JC, why didn't I notice that right from the get-go? The very first post states that the girls were born well after the mother died. Back to square one, methinks!

So evidently after Mary Smith died John Halliday married Alice Ann Caley and she was the mother of Sarah & Mary?
1901 census
68 Railway St., Ryhope, Durham
John Halliday, head, 41, coalminer hewer, born Northumberland East Holywell
Alice Ann, wife, 32, born Yorks, Middlesbrough
Joseph, son, 11, born Ryhope
Mary J., dau, 2, born "
Sarah A., dau, 5 months, born "

John with first wife:
1891 census
80 Railway St., Ryhope, Durham
John Halliday, head, 31, coalminer, born east Holywell, Northumberland
Mary I., wife, 28, born Coxhoe, Durham
Joseph, son, 1, born Ryhope

I wonder if Alice Ann's maiden name was Hogg and she was previously married to a Caley? Can't find the marriage though.

Thanks Ozi,

for this but I don't understand who Jane, and Richard are and how they fit into all this?

any help please.

cheers

Vickyx :D

Vicky, Jane and Richard are just the other 2 names on the same page. Ignore them. There are 4 names per page, 2 males and 2 females. The problem is to find who married who. Since we know that Thomas married a Susannah Ozi matched them up so evidently Richard married Jane.

That clears that up thank you :D

Vicky, I'm surprised that you haven't made mention of the fact that Mary Smith was not the mother of Sarah & Mary as you said in your original post. I think that we have proved that they were daughters of John and his second wife Alice Ann. I suspect that her maiden name was Hogg and she was previously married but can't find any confirmation of that.

This is what makes it look more likely that the bride of Ross Holtom in Ontario was our Sarah Ann -- the father's name matches exactly, the mother's given names match exactly, the place of birth matches exactly.

I think either the record is so illegible that Sarah was read as Vera -- or our Sarah decided to take on a more modern name! It certainly happened. ;)

I did check for a Hogg/Caley marriage right off, note. Don't see one. But -- there's no birth of an Alice Ann Caley, just the 1898 marriage to Halliday.

That certificate needs checking to see whether she was previously married -- or Sarah Ann Halliday's birth certificate should show. I think that's the only way to gell whether there's a match with Vera Ann Halliday in Ontario.

The 1901 census makes Alice Ann born c1867/8 in Middlesbrough. There's no birth to match, just an Alice Ann Hogg Mar 1869 in Tynemouth. That one is in the 1871 with parents Archebold and Margaret in Wallsend. There are a couple of other candidates in 1871.

This is interesting:

Marriages Dec 1896
Cochrane Eliza Sunderland 10a 988
? Hogg Alice Ann Sunderland 10a 988
Nesham Matthew Sunderland 10a 988
Thomas James Sunderland 10a 988

It seems that Nesham and Cochrane married (1901 census).


Well. This sure is a match for Alice Ann Caley Halliday in 1881:

Name: Alice Ann Hogg
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867
Relation: Niece
Where born: Middlesbrough, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Bishopwearmouth
County/Island: Durham

Charles Stoddard 54 - born Chatham, Kent
Margt. Stoddard 52 - born near Berwick on Tweed
Alice Ann Hogg 14


So it's looking increasingly like that Vera Ann Halliday marrying in Ontario is the right person.

I agree, JC.

Incidentally there is this birth for Alice A. Hogg in Middlesbrough on Tees Valley Indexes:

Search births - results for ALICE HOGG 1860 to 1880

Result Year Forename Initial Ref Number Click to contact
1 1866 ALICE A M-V-045-0-0044 Middlesbrough

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is a post i received that you may find interesting Vicky...........

To Prickly Holly, we are building a site called www.britishhomechildren.org

We have a database on there and encourage descendants and researchers to add or claim their child on the site, please feel free to add your relatives.

I wonder if this is Alice Ann's death?

Deaths Sep 1907 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HALLIDAY Alice Ann 40 Sunderland 10a 352

Oh drat, Margee!

I'd figured out that Middlesbrough was Stockton reg dist until 1875, and searched there, and missed this:

Births Dec 1866
Hogg Alice A Stockton 10a 38

There she be.

Why the Caley ... ? Still assuming it is the same person.


One possible answer:

Marriages Sep 1885
? Cawley Patrick Sunderland 10a 746
Cunningham Annie Sunderland 10a 746
Hall William Andrew Sunderland 10a 746
? Hogg Alice Sunderland 10a 746

But no matching death for Patrick by either spelling that I see.

The Caley-Halliday marriage cert seems a necessity to sort it out.


Note that in my second post on this page I did give a very handy chronological summary of events with the GRO index refs for each:

first Halliday marriage to Smith 1888
Joseph Halliday birth 1889
second Halliday marriage to Caley 1898
Mary J Halliday birth 1898
Sarah A Halliday birth 1900
> Alice Ann Halliday death 1907
1901 census household

all there for handy reference!

I think the only thing to do is order the marriage certificate to see if her maiden name was Hogg.

Marriages Jun 1898 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Caley Alice Ann Sunderland 10a 929
Halliday John Sunderland 10a 929

Thanks again you are all brilliant and I can now confirm that Sarah is know as Vera! I do not know why but she is!! ;-)

Thanks also for the website for home children I shall make an entry very soon.

Vicky x
:D :D :D :D :D :D

So this means you're in touch with family now?? If so, yay!

In case not, or it helps tracing family, this is Sarah/Vera's husband in the 1911 Cdn census:

http://www.automatedgenealogy.com/census11/index.jsp

Holtom Frederick M Head M Jul 1859 51 1901 Holtom Rebecca F Wife M Feb 1868 43
Holtom William Jr. M Son M Jan 1888 23 1901 Holtom Herbert H. M Son S Aug 1891 19 1901
> Holtom Ross C. M Son S Mar 1893 17 1901
Holtom Jenny F Daughter M Sep 1887 23 1901
Holtom Ross W. H. M Grandson S Feb 1909 2 1901
Holtom May E. F Granddaughter S Jun 1910 11/1