Find Ancestors

Elizabeth is my ggmmother and I have struggled to find my ggfather. I thought it was Ratford Seal as per recent thread but because of members input this was disproved. I know believe she married John Seal in 1858 (Soham (Newmarket)). However I can find no trace of either in 1861 census. There is a John and Elizabeth Seal in Soham but I am sure it is not them.
Then in 1871 Elizabeth is living in Soham but no husband, status - married. In 1884 she married John Darnell as a widow.
Any input appreciated.
Paul

Is this the 1861 that you think isn't them?

SEAL, John Head Married M 24 1837 Brick Maker Journeyman
Soham
Cambridgeshire VIEW
SEAL, Elizabeth Wife Married F 20 1841
Soham
Cambridgeshire VIEW
SEAL, Eliza Daughter F 2 1859
Soham
Cambridgeshire VIEW
RG number:
RG09 Piece:
1036 Folio:
47 Page:
34

Registration District:
Newmarket Sub District:
5 Soham Enumeration District:
7 Ecclesiastical Parish:

Civil Parish:
Soham Municipal Borough:
Address:
Quafen Common, Soham County:
Cambridgeshire


This appears to be the marriage.

Name: SEAL, John
Registration District: Newmarket
County: Cambridgeshire
Year of Registration: 1858
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Spouse's last name: Not available before 1912
Volume No: 3B
Page No: 1224
MarriageFinder: John Seal married one of the following people
>>CLARK, Elizabeth
MUNNS, Harriet
JACKSON, William


His death?

Civil Registration event: Death
Name: SEAL, John
Registration District: Newmarket
County: Cambridgeshire
Year of Registration: 1880
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at death: 78
Volume No: 3B
Page No: 342

What is the name of her child, your ancestor?
Also, should this be on your previous thread, as we do not want to spend time duplicating information?

Previous thread was about Radford Seal and this is his marriage.

Civil Registration event: Marriage
Name: SEAL, Ratford
Registration District: Newmarket
County: Cambridgeshire
Year of Registration: 1859
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Spouse's last name: Not available before 1912
Volume No: 3B
Page No: 1279
MarriageFinder: Ratford Seal married one of the following people
GILBY, Elizabeth
STARLING, Mary Ann
BULL, William

Daughter Eliza is a scholar here in 1871.

Charles Blake Fisher Master Of The Newmarket Union Workhouse, Exning, Newmarket

And this is the 1871 with Elizabeth as married.

SEAL, Elizabeth Head F 32 1839 brickmaker's lab Godmanchester Huntingdonshire VIEW
SEAL, Arthur Son M 5 1866 Cambridgeshire VIEW
SEAL, Sarah J Daughter F 1 1870 Cambridgeshire VIEW
RG number:
RG10 Piece:
1601 Folio:
18 Page:
30

Registration District:
Newmarket Sub District:
Soham Enumeration District:
6 Ecclesiastical Parish:

Civil Parish:
Soham Municipal Borough:
Address:
Fountain Lane, Soham County:
Cambridgeshire


Still married 1881.

SEAL, Elizabeth Head Married F 41 1840 Washwoman &c
Godmanchester
Huntingdonshire VIEW
DARNELL, John Lodger Widower M 53 1828 Ag Labourer
Soham
Cambridgeshire VIEW
SEAL, Arthur Son Single M 14 1867 Ag Labourer
Soham
Cambridgeshire VIEW
SEAL, Sarah Daughter Single F 11 1870 Scholar
Soham
Cambridgeshire VIEW
SEAL, Sophia Daughter Single F 3 1878
Soham
Cambridgeshire VIEW
RG number:
RG11 Piece:
1681 Folio:
10 Page:
13

Registration District:
Newmarket Sub District:
Soham Enumeration District:
Ecclesiastical Parish:

Civil Parish:
Soham Municipal Borough:
Address:
Pratt St, Soham County:
Cambridgeshire



I think you need daughter Eliza's birth certificate to see if her mother was Elizabeth Clark. Who are you descended from?


Name: SEAL, Eliza
Registration District: Newmarket
County: Cambridgeshire
Year of Registration: 1860
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Mother's Maiden Name: Not available before 1911 Q3
Volume No: 3B
Page No: 495

My grandmother was Sophia, who was 3 in 1871 census. Reason I didn't think it was John and Elizabeth in 1861 is that it shows Elizabeth born Soham not Godmanchester. Also didn't recognise Eliza. I had Mary Anne but I now believe it to be correct because Mary Anne was Mary Anne Eliza.

New to posting so please bear with me.

Flo you're so right about the death reference, I didn't even notice his age!
Paul has informed me that that was John's father.lol :D

Liz

Ok Paul, getting confused here.
Mary Anne Eliza was Rat/dford and Elizabeth's daughter.

Parish Records Collection 1538-2005baptism
Day: 7
Month: Oct
Year: 1860
Forenames: Mary Ann Eliza
Surname: Seal
Relationship: dau of
Father forenames: Ratford
Fathers occupation: lab
Mother forenames: Elizabeth
Birth Day:
Birth Month:
Birth Year:
Abode: otp
Place: Soham
County: Cambridgeshire
Notes:
Record source: Cambridgeshire Baptisms
Data provider: Cambridgeshire Family History Society



1861 for her.

SEALE, Radford D Head Married M 22 1839 Agricultural Labourer
Soham
Cambridgeshire VIEW
SEALE, Elizabeth Wife Married F 19 1842
Soham
Cambridgeshire VIEW
SEALE, Mary A Daughter F 1 1860
Soham
Cambridgeshire VIEW
RG number:
RG09 Piece:
1035 Folio:
105 Page:
9

Registration District:
Newmarket Sub District:
5 Soham Enumeration District:
5 Ecclesiastical Parish:

Civil Parish:
Soham Municipal Borough:
Address:
Moor Side, Soham County:
Cambridgeshire


They also had

Day: 22
Month: Jun
Year: 1862
Forenames: Eliza
Surname: Seal
Relationship: dau of
Father forenames: Ratford
Fathers occupation: lab
Mother forenames: Elizabeth
Birth Day:
Birth Month:
Birth Year:
Abode: otp
Place: Soham
County: Cambridgeshire


and another Eliza, 2 oct 1864.
:-D :-D :-D

This may be Eliza in 1861.

Parish Records Collection 1538-2005baptism
Day: 13
Month: Sep
Year: 1859
Forenames: Elizabeth Eliza
Surname: Seal
Relationship: dau of
Father forenames: John
Fathers occupation: lab
Mother forenames: Elizabeth
Birth Day:
Birth Month:
Birth Year:
Abode: otp
Place: Soham
County: Cambridgeshire


This now appears to be her birth.

Civil Registration event: Birth
Name: SEAL, Elizabeth Eliza
Registration District: Ely
County: Cambridgeshire
Year of Registration: 1859
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Mother's Maiden Name: Not available before 1911 Q3
Volume No: 3B
Page No: 573

Elizabeth Clarke in 1851.

CLARKE, Samuel Head Married M 35 1816 Brick Burner
Barkshall
Suffolk VIEW
CLARKE, Dianna Wife Married F 32 1819
Great Paxton
Huntingdonshire VIEW
CLARKE, Elizabeth Daughter F 10 1841
Godmanchester
Huntingdonshire VIEW
CLARKE, Emma Daughter F 1 1850
Soham
Cambridgeshire VIEW
CLARKE, Arlota Daughter F 0 (9 MOS) 1851
Soham
Cambridgeshire VIEW
SMITH, Maria Servant F 14 1837 House Servant
Soham
Cambridgeshire VIEW
HARD, Richard Visitor Married M 35 1816 Pipe Maker
St Ives
Huntingdonshire VIEW
FROST, George Visitor M 14 1837 Ag Lab
Dullingham
Suffolk VIEW
RG number:
HO107 Piece:
1763 Folio:
249 Page:
36

Registration District:
Newmarket Sub District:
Soham Enumeration District:
4D Ecclesiastical Parish:

Civil Parish:
Soham Municipal Borough:
Address:
Cooks Picer Brickilm, Soham County:
Cambridgeshire

There is this one in 1861. I think her name is Clark but she is unmarried.

KING, James Head Widower M 66 1795 Farmer Of 100 Acres Employing 29 Men And 6 Boys
Dullingham
Cambridgeshire VIEW
KING, Robert Son Unmarried M 26 1835
Newmarket All Saints VIEW
LEADER, Martha Servant Unmarried F 60 1801 House Keepr
Greenstead
Suffolk VIEW
>>COOK, Eliza Servant Unmarried F 21 1840 Cook
Godmanchester
Huntingdonshire VIEW
FORST, Samuel Servant F 15 1846 House Maid
Tostock
Suffolk VIEW
SHARP, James Servant M 15 1846 House Boy
Ousden
Suffolk VIEW
RG number:
RG09 Piece:
1031 Folio:
54 Page:
15

Registration District:
Newmarket Sub District:
1 Cheveley Enumeration District:
4 Ecclesiastical Parish:
Ely

Civil Parish:
Dullingham Municipal Borough:
Address:
Hill Farm, New Market Lane, Dullingham County:
Cambridgeshire


Edit Think found this one in 1851 with parents Elijah and Eliza so can be discounted.

Sorry. Senior moments. 1861 census shows Liza is John's daughter. Last week I thought Ratford was my ggfather now I am sure Ratford's brother John is.
Confusion was that both wer married to an Elizabeth.

Still not got an answer to my original question about what happened to John.

Flo

Thanks for your help. Nothing like a good mystery is there. I have been through so many permutations along the same lines as you. My grandmother married as Darnell which as always made me think that the 'lodger' has a lot to answer for. Not sure if I will find out - guess one possibility would be birth certificate or visit down to Soham area.

Other possibility regarding John was prison/deportation? Was it still valid in 1870's?

Paul

Paul Wild one A John and Radford, lodgers working as miners. Radford born Cambs, John born ? Whitley

1871 England Census
about John Seal Name: John Seal
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Whitley, Yorkshire, England
Civil parish: Brotton
Ecclesiastical parish: Brotton
Town: Brotton
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Registration district: Guisborough
Sub-registration district: Marske
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Household schedule number: 83
Piece: 4853
Folio: 134
Page Number: 21
Household Members: Name Age
William James 34
Sarah James 29
Sarah Fletcher 11
Elem Ann Fletcher 5
John Seal 31
John Jobbin 57
Wiliam Lefferson 33
Mary J Lefferson 27
Eliza Lefferson 5 Months


1871 England Census
about Radford Seal Name: Radford Seal
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Cambridgeshire, England
Civil parish: Brotton
Ecclesiastical parish: Brotton
Town: Brotton
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Registration district: Guisborough
Sub-registration district: Marske
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Household schedule number: 131
Piece: 4853
Folio: 140
Page Number: 33
Household Members: Name Age
Joseph Seal 25
Selma Seal 23
Joseph Seal 3
Ann Eliza Seal 2
Willis Peevey 25
Willis Murfot 22
Radford Seal 31

Vera

1881

HASTINGS, John Head Married M 59 1822 Labourer
Frampton
Lincolnshire
HASTINGS, Sarah Wife Married F 50 1831
Marsdon
Lincolnshire
BROADBENT, Thomas Boarder Single M 56 1825 Gardner
Loham (Soham)
Cambridgeshire
SEAL, John Boarder Single M 42 1839 Ironstone Miner
Osgoby
Lincolnshire
BEAL, George Boarder Single M 28 1853 Ironstone Miner
Osgoby
Lincolnshire
RG number:
RG11 Piece:
4838 Folio:
111 Page:
6
Registration District:
Guisbrough Sub District:
Lofthouse Enumeration District:
Ecclesiastical Parish
Civil Parish:
Brotton Municipal Borough:
Address:
8, Day St, Brotton County:


Deaths Sep 1885 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------
SEAL John 48 Guisbro' 9d 287



Following Vera's find in 1871, is this the same John, still in Brotton 1881?...wonder if his birthplace was muddled with Thomas Broadbent.


(noticed the following small article in newspaper, nothing on John though)

Taken from, the Bury and Norwich Post, and Suffolk Herald, dated Tuesday November 22nd 1881...

Newmarket Petty Sessions.
Elementary Education.
Charles Jobson and Elizabeth Seal of Soham, were charged by Jonathan Leonard with neglecting their childrens education. Both pleaded guilty and were fined with costs 5s each, 14 days allowed for payment.

Chris :)


Forenames: Elizabeth
Surname: Darnell
Residence:
Day: 9
Month: Feb
Year: 1923
Age: 83
Notes:
Parish: Soham, Burial Book
County: Cambridgeshire
Grave details: K360/2522/
Record source: Cambridgeshire Burials

Excellent spot Vera. I found Ratford previously working here but POB and age meant John stayed hidden. Being brothers they could well have gone to look for work.
Other coincidence is that Ratford was staying with Joseph and Selma Seal. Also two Willis's were from Soham. Joseph is shown as born in Durham (cf Soham) and Selma (think it reads Selina) as Soham.
Plot thickens.

Paul

Paul

Looks like a lot of Soham people headed North to the mines. Wonder if the pob's were muddled by enumerator or they were deliberately hiding them.
I think the following may be Ratford.


Name: Katford Seal
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1879
Age at Death: 38
Registration district: Guisborough
Inferred County: Yorkshire North Riding
Volume: 9d

Vera

Being brothers there is every chance Ratford and John went looking for work toget her. Willis P and Willis M were also from Soham.

Other coincidence is Ratford lodging with Joseph and Selma (reads Salina in Census) Seal. Joseph from Durham and Selma from Soham!

Puzzling?

Seem to be repeating myself. Couldn't see post I did during lunch.

Vera/Chris - many thanks for your input.