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Edward and Mary were also registered as Garnett which is why I believe they were illegitimate. Don't know the answer to the second question but will try to find out. I know that the Genes member linked to Edward believes William to also be the father, but he's the one who hasn't opened my message to him as yet. Will keep searching, but it's quite depressing to think that the wall is unbreechable but I suppose I just have to be realistic. Thanks for all your time and support Potty, you've been a star. Best Wishes from Lynn

Were Edward and Mary's births registered as Farrell or Garnett and did they also give William as their father on their marriage certs?

As Maura says, it is going to be very difficult to prove that the William you have found is yours. Sometimes we just have to admit that a brick wall is unbreachable!

Thanks for the information Maura. I guess I thought that William could be the one as there seem to be fewer Farrells in Mayo, than say for example in Longford. How can one know then? It seems to be virtually an impossible task!

Lynn, rootsireland site is not complete, they do not have all church records, plus not all R.C. records go back as far as the 1840's. Just because you've found 1 William Farrell with a date that fits doesn't mean its your. Farell a very common in Ireland and so is William.

Hi Potty,
Birth Certificate info. William Farrell born on 28/08/1878 at 30 Trafalgar Street, Bedford, Lancashire. Mother recorded as Sarah Farrell, late Garnett formerly Russel. Sarah makes mark x as signature on certificate. Father- William Farrell - colliery worker. Sarah's birth name is actually Raszell so illiteracy probably reason for difference on birth certificate. She was born in 1841 and married Daniel Garnett on 07/12/1860 at St. Thomas Church, Eccleston, Lancs. By 1861, they had one son, John aged 1 year. By 1871, Sarah was a widow and had three additional children, Daniel, 8 years, Robert, 5 years, and Jane, 4years. By 1881, still a widow, three more children had been born and this is where I believe William Farrell (1841) fits in. Sarah had Edward, 9 years, Mary, 5 years and William, 2 years, all known as Garnett. These three are believed to be the illegitimate children of William (Genes member descendants of Edward and Mary are searching for the same man!) Note- at this time, Sarah was living at Eglantine Terrace, Warrington Road, Abram, Wigan, Lancs. By 1891, Sarah had remarried Robert Haslam with William, then aged 12 recorded as Robert's stepson. It's interesting to note that also in 1891, William Farrell senior (born 1841) is recorded as a Boarder, living at 29 Warrington Lane, Abram. On 28/08/1900, William (1878), married Elizabeth Ann Hope at St.John's Church, Abram at which point he reverts to his fathers name of Farrell. His marriage certificate gives his fathers name as William Farrell-profession, collier and the marriage is witnessed by William Eddleston and Alice Barton. William junior was also a collier and at the time of marriage both he and Elizabeth were living in Plank Lane nr. Wigan, Lancs. Note that Plank Lane is a place, not a street name-very confusing. I hope that I've answered all queries. It does seem likely that William 1841 was the father of William 1878 don't you think? Thanks for taking the time to read this. Lynn

Lynn,

The connection you have made between William (1878) and William (1841) is very vague. Father's names on marriage certs were often made up to cover illegitimacy. Can you tell us all that you know about William 1878: when, who and where he married; address at time of marriage; witnesses; his occupation.

Also, what censuses have you found him on.

I shall be logging off soon but will be back on tomorrow.

Where was William (1878) born?

Edit: do you have the above William on any census?

Assuming he was born in the Wigan area, lancsbmd has a William Farrel b 1878, Leigh, with a mmn of Russel - but I can't find a Farrell/Russel marriage.

Thank you very much, Potty.

Fergus's marriage - from freebmd :

Marriages Sep 1856 (>99%)
Farrell Fergis Wigan 8c 23

Hello again Potty, just remembered, was told on the thread when I was searching for Emma Fairclough that there was a link on the Morgan Family Tree on Ancestry. Would I have to join to make this connection? You've no doubt guessed by now that I'm still a novice at all this. Lynn

Hi Potty,

To start at the beginning and hopefully not bore you to death in the process, I initially found the name of William Farrell (1841) on my grandfather's marriage certificate. He was also called William , born in 1878. The mc recorded William (seniors) occupation as coal miner. Census searches of 1881 and 1891 revealed that there was only one William Farrell living in the Wigan area whose occupation was coal miner, so I presumed it had to be him, hence the date of birth I have. One of the censuses recorded born in Ireland, and the other Co. Mayo, so I did a rootsireland search and again, there was only one William Farrell with that year of birth recorded and here was where I got the names of Lewis Farrell and Esther Bellew as parents. On Robert Farrells baptism record born 1845 Esther is recorded as Ellen Regarding Fergus's marriage certificate, how could I have missed the obvious!? Will investigate, although need to identify where and when married. As I said earlier in this thread, I've had no luck making contact with the relatives of Emma Fairclough, Fergus's daughter who was recorded as informant and niece on William (seniors) death certificate, Don't have William seniors marriage certificate as he appears to have remained single despite being named as father on his sons marriage certificate. Again census records confirm this. Thank you so much for your enquiry and advice-do you wish you hadn't asked!!? Lynn

Lynn

Just wondering where you got William's parents' names from.

Have you thought of getting Fergus's marriage cert? This should have his father's name (although it isn't mentioned in the church record).

Do you have William's marriage cert to compare father's name and occupation?

Never even considered that, thanks Pam. Am just hoping that I haven't inherited the unlucky gene!

Since Fergus died by accident, information should be in the local newspaper. That would be a good place to look. You never know there might be an obituary for him naming relatives. Pam

Thank you Pam, had seen the census info and am confident of link between Emma and William but can't establish Fergus link with the William in Ireland. It's so frustrating!! Have tried the Fergis spelling on Roots too and still nothing. p.s as an aside, I was informed some time ago that Fergus died by falling into a canal and I know from his death certificate that poor William died of exhaustion in the Wigan Union Workhouse. What a happy family history!! I may be wise not to delve any further!!!! Once again, thank you so much for the help you've given me and the time taken in doing so. It's very much appreciated. Lynn

Link Emma Fairclough to Fergus Farrell

1971 english census from FMP (Whoops spot the mistake 1871 census)
>>>>>FARRELL, Fergus Head M 36 1835 Ireland
FARRELL, Sarah Wife F 37 1834 Lancashire
FARRELL, Alice Daughter F 11 1860 Lancashire
FARRELL, Mary A Daughter F 9 1862 Lancashire
FARRELL, Ruth Daughter F 8 1863 Lancashire
FARRELL, Levi Son M 6 1865 Lancashire
>>>>>FARRELL, Emma Daughter F 1 1870 Lancashire
RG number: RG10 Piece: 3881 Folio: 10 Page: 14

Registration District: Wigan Sub District: Standish Enumeration District: 1 Ecclesiastical Parish:

Civil Parish: Standish Municipal Borough:
Address: High Street, Standish County: Lancashire

1891 census from FMP
Person: FARRELL, Fergus
Address: 16, Bondsall Street, Livesey, Blackburn

Emma's marriage from Freebmd
Marriages Jun 1890 (>99%)
FAIRCLOUGH John Thomas Blackburn 8e 664
FARRELL Emma Blackburn 8e 664

Fergus' marriage from Lancsopc
Marriage: 6 Jul 1856 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England
Fergis Farrell - 20 Collier Bachelor of Scholes
Sarah Worthington - (X), 20 Spinster of Scholes
Bride's Father: Edward Worthington, Labourer
Witness: Robert Morris; Julia Worthington, (X)
Married by Banns by: Charles H.Newbold Clerk in Orders
Notes: [Groom signed 'Fergis Farrel']
Register: Marriages 1855 - 1856, Page 179, Entry 357
Source: LDS Film 1885697

Fergus' death from FMP
Name: FARRELL, Fergus
Registration District: Wigan
County: Lancashire
Year of Registration: 1901
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Age at death: 64
Volume No: 8C
Page No: 44

You can find census info for Fergus on Familysearch for 1861, 1881 and 1901.

The information above gives you the link from Emma Fairclough to Fergus Farrell and you have the link from Emma to William.

Good hunting.

Pam

Hi Pam, don't know what to say other than you are unbelievable!!! How do you do this? Could well be, as I know with Irish searches you're advised that spellings change. Without Fergus though, I can't be sure that these are the correct parents. Will keep digging. Thank you so very much AGAIN.

Hi Lynn

What do you think?
Church Marriage Ferral Luis 1835 Co. Mayo
Church Marriage Bellew Ester 1835 Co. Mayo

Therefore, last post would be incorrect.

Only Robert and William showing as children.

Now for Fergus.

You are a star Pam. How come I can't find anything on irishroots??The only Ellen that I found was married in 1829 in County Meath, but not to Lewis Farrell. Am now hoping that I'm barking up the right tree (can one say that!?) as I need to find a link with Fergus Farrell born 1836 since his daughter is recorded as niece on William's (born1841) death certificate dated 1903. Thank you so much for all your help.

Hi Lynn, looking at irishroots again.
Looks like Lewis and Ellen married in Co. Meath 1829/30 had several children (Possibles - Mary, James, Richard, Lewis) then moved to Co. Mayo (Children: William and Robert. Possibly visited Meath and had Philip.) The dates are in sequence from Mary (1831) through to Robert.

Another possible child from 1901 census Martin.

1901 irish census

Farrell Ellen 87 Female Mother (of Martin) RC Co.Mayo

Unfortunately Ellen is not found on 1911 census.