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Lynn

Just wondering where you got William's parents' names from.

Have you thought of getting Fergus's marriage cert? This should have his father's name (although it isn't mentioned in the church record).

Do you have William's marriage cert to compare father's name and occupation?

Hi Potty,

To start at the beginning and hopefully not bore you to death in the process, I initially found the name of William Farrell (1841) on my grandfather's marriage certificate. He was also called William , born in 1878. The mc recorded William (seniors) occupation as coal miner. Census searches of 1881 and 1891 revealed that there was only one William Farrell living in the Wigan area whose occupation was coal miner, so I presumed it had to be him, hence the date of birth I have. One of the censuses recorded born in Ireland, and the other Co. Mayo, so I did a rootsireland search and again, there was only one William Farrell with that year of birth recorded and here was where I got the names of Lewis Farrell and Esther Bellew as parents. On Robert Farrells baptism record born 1845 Esther is recorded as Ellen Regarding Fergus's marriage certificate, how could I have missed the obvious!? Will investigate, although need to identify where and when married. As I said earlier in this thread, I've had no luck making contact with the relatives of Emma Fairclough, Fergus's daughter who was recorded as informant and niece on William (seniors) death certificate, Don't have William seniors marriage certificate as he appears to have remained single despite being named as father on his sons marriage certificate. Again census records confirm this. Thank you so much for your enquiry and advice-do you wish you hadn't asked!!? Lynn

Hello again Potty, just remembered, was told on the thread when I was searching for Emma Fairclough that there was a link on the Morgan Family Tree on Ancestry. Would I have to join to make this connection? You've no doubt guessed by now that I'm still a novice at all this. Lynn

Fergus's marriage - from freebmd :

Marriages Sep 1856 (>99%)
Farrell Fergis Wigan 8c 23

Thank you very much, Potty.

Where was William (1878) born?

Edit: do you have the above William on any census?

Assuming he was born in the Wigan area, lancsbmd has a William Farrel b 1878, Leigh, with a mmn of Russel - but I can't find a Farrell/Russel marriage.

Lynn,

The connection you have made between William (1878) and William (1841) is very vague. Father's names on marriage certs were often made up to cover illegitimacy. Can you tell us all that you know about William 1878: when, who and where he married; address at time of marriage; witnesses; his occupation.

Also, what censuses have you found him on.

I shall be logging off soon but will be back on tomorrow.

Hi Potty,
Birth Certificate info. William Farrell born on 28/08/1878 at 30 Trafalgar Street, Bedford, Lancashire. Mother recorded as Sarah Farrell, late Garnett formerly Russel. Sarah makes mark x as signature on certificate. Father- William Farrell - colliery worker. Sarah's birth name is actually Raszell so illiteracy probably reason for difference on birth certificate. She was born in 1841 and married Daniel Garnett on 07/12/1860 at St. Thomas Church, Eccleston, Lancs. By 1861, they had one son, John aged 1 year. By 1871, Sarah was a widow and had three additional children, Daniel, 8 years, Robert, 5 years, and Jane, 4years. By 1881, still a widow, three more children had been born and this is where I believe William Farrell (1841) fits in. Sarah had Edward, 9 years, Mary, 5 years and William, 2 years, all known as Garnett. These three are believed to be the illegitimate children of William (Genes member descendants of Edward and Mary are searching for the same man!) Note- at this time, Sarah was living at Eglantine Terrace, Warrington Road, Abram, Wigan, Lancs. By 1891, Sarah had remarried Robert Haslam with William, then aged 12 recorded as Robert's stepson. It's interesting to note that also in 1891, William Farrell senior (born 1841) is recorded as a Boarder, living at 29 Warrington Lane, Abram. On 28/08/1900, William (1878), married Elizabeth Ann Hope at St.John's Church, Abram at which point he reverts to his fathers name of Farrell. His marriage certificate gives his fathers name as William Farrell-profession, collier and the marriage is witnessed by William Eddleston and Alice Barton. William junior was also a collier and at the time of marriage both he and Elizabeth were living in Plank Lane nr. Wigan, Lancs. Note that Plank Lane is a place, not a street name-very confusing. I hope that I've answered all queries. It does seem likely that William 1841 was the father of William 1878 don't you think? Thanks for taking the time to read this. Lynn

Lynn, rootsireland site is not complete, they do not have all church records, plus not all R.C. records go back as far as the 1840's. Just because you've found 1 William Farrell with a date that fits doesn't mean its your. Farell a very common in Ireland and so is William.

Thanks for the information Maura. I guess I thought that William could be the one as there seem to be fewer Farrells in Mayo, than say for example in Longford. How can one know then? It seems to be virtually an impossible task!

Were Edward and Mary's births registered as Farrell or Garnett and did they also give William as their father on their marriage certs?

As Maura says, it is going to be very difficult to prove that the William you have found is yours. Sometimes we just have to admit that a brick wall is unbreachable!

Edward and Mary were also registered as Garnett which is why I believe they were illegitimate. Don't know the answer to the second question but will try to find out. I know that the Genes member linked to Edward believes William to also be the father, but he's the one who hasn't opened my message to him as yet. Will keep searching, but it's quite depressing to think that the wall is unbreechable but I suppose I just have to be realistic. Thanks for all your time and support Potty, you've been a star. Best Wishes from Lynn