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Hi, Just wondered if anyone would be able to look up the India Passenger Lists for me. I am looking for John Alexander who I believe was a Ships Cook on the "City of Washington". He was born in India in 1928. Would be very grateful if someone would be kind enough to do this for me.

Hello Mary, are you looking for outgoing or incoming to UK?

Hi, I am not sure. I cannot find anything at all about John Alexander, I am really struggling, so any information would be great.

Mary, I'm not seeing anything obvious.

What are you trying to find out about him?

Hi We know he was born in Madras, East Indies, in 1928. He married a lady called Margaret and had a child called Ellen who was born 1860 ish.

On the 1871 census they are shown as living in Liverpool.

I tried to access the India Passenger List on Genes but I had to upgrade so I wondered if you had access to this. When I went on the List it did show up a John Alexander but I could not access the image. Hope this helps. Thanks so much for your help, I am really struggling with this and have been for a while.

Mary - can you double check your dates please?

How can someone born in 1928 be on the 1871 census? Are you a century out?

Right, let's get the facts straight! He was born in 1828 and they weren't in Liverpool in 1871, they were in Manchester! :-S

ALEXANDER, John Head M 43 1828 India , b Madras. Occ Hawker
ALEXANDER, Margaret Wife F 27 1844 Lancashire b Liverpool
ALEXANDER, Ellen Daughter F 10 1861 Lancashire b Liverpool

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Registration District: Manchester
Civil Parish: Manchester
Municipal Borough: Manchester

Address: Crown Lane, Manchester County: Lancashire

The only Indian record I can see is for army officers retired in 1855?

How are you connected to him? How did you come across him in the 1871?

Whoops sorry, he was born 1828.

Thank you so much for that info - where did you get that info from?I have never seen him anywhere as a Hawker! I am connected in that my Grandad, George Phipps was the son of Ellen and John Phipps. Ellen's maiden name was Alexander, her dad was John Alexander.

Sorry, the two ladies were born in Liverpool on the 1871 census not living there.

Hi Mary - pleased we got there in the end :-)

The occupation is off the original image of the 1871 census.

Did you get Ellen's father's name from the certificate of her marriage to John Phipps? What was John's occupation on her marriage certificate?

Where did you get the name of the ship he was a cook on?

Sorry for all the questions, just trying to work out where to go next!

Little info on original to help confirm it's your John Down as a Labourer.

New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957
about John Alexander Name: John Alexander
Arrival Date: 13 Jun 1853
Birth Year: abt 1828
Age: 25
Gender: Male
Ethnicity/Race­/Nationality: British (English)
Place of Origin: Great Britain
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Destination: United States of America
Port of Arrival: New York
Port Arrival State: New York
Port Arrival Country: United States
Ship Name: City of Washington
Search Ship Database: Search the City of Washington in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database

Vera

This one has a John Alexander travelling with parents Thomas and Ann.
Thomas and John are labourers. Siblings ?Smyth, Robert, Thomas and a 4 year old daughter name difficult to see.

New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957
about John Alexander Name: John Alexander
Arrival Date: 9 Mar 1847
Birth Year: abt 1828
Age: 19
Gender: Male
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Huguenot
Search Ship Database: Search the Huguenot in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database

Vera

Thank you so much for your help. I had most of the info above but cannot move on from there. I have since relooked at all the info I have got. I know from my mum's family that there was a Red Indian in the family (so presume this was either John or his parents). John's occupation on John and Ellen's marriage certificate was a Cook. A family member told me he was a ship's cook and so with that information and the info off the Passenger Lists I added two and two together and came up with ten!! I have relooked and cannot find any evidence that John was a ship's cook, so may have been trying to trace something that was never there.

I have confirmed John is on the 1871 census with his wife Margaret and daughter Ellen. I cannot find Margaret or John (don't know her maiden name yet) on any other cencus or death or marriage records etc. I can find the daughter Ellen on the 1881 census when she was in the workhouse! The year after that she got married to John. Why would she be in the workhouse? I am sorry I led you up the wrong path, not sure if you will be able to help me any further. Many thanks.

Hi Mary, we'll certainly keep looking for further info.

It's oh so dangerous when we start following up family stories - a huge pinch of salt has to be taken.

If John was a "red indian" (aka Native American) then he would not be from Madras, as per the 1871 census.

Mary, let's start from known facts and work back. Is this your family in 1911?

PHIPPS, John Head Married M 50 1861 Wood Sawyer Lancs Manchester
PHIPPS, Ellen Wife Married 28 years F 50 1861 Housekeeper Lancs Manchester
PHIPPS, Ellen Daughter Single F 22 1889 Cotton Ringspinner Lancs Manchester
PHIPPS, Margaret Daughter Single F 20 1891 Cotton Ringspinner Lancs Manchester
PHIPPS, John Son Single M 15 1896 Assistant In Rope Walk Lancs Manchester
PHIPPS, Grace Daughter F 13 1898 School Lancs Manchester
PHIPPS, Maud Daughter F 11 1900 School Lancs Salford
PHIPPS, George Son M 9 1902 School Lancs Salford
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Registration District: Salford
Sub District: Regent Road
Enumeration District: 8
Parish: Salford

Address: 24 New Cambridge St Salford County: Lancashire

(Ellen had borne 9 children, 1 had died)

** If it IS the right family then Ellen's birthplace is Manchester and not Liverpool as in that 1871.

Ellen is also stated as being from Manchester on the 1901, but 1891 does say Liverpool:

PHIPPS, John Head Married M 30 1861 Circular Sawyer Wood Manchester
PHIPPS, Ellen Wife Married F 30 1861 Liverpool **
PHIPPS, Rose Daughter F 7 1884 Scholar Manchester
PHIPPS, Arthur Son M 5 1886 Scholar Manchester
PHIPPS, Ellen Daughter F 2 1889 Manchester
PHIPPS, Margaret Daughter F 0 (7M) 1891 Manchester
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Registration District: Manchester
Civil Parish: Manchester
Municipal Borough: Manchester

Address: 154, Harrowby Street, Manchester County: Lancashire

As regards Ellen being in the workhouse in 1881, it may have been a hospital (doesn't say workhouse on the record)?

ANDERSON, Margt Matron Head Single F 35 1846 Matron (Hospital) Scotland
WILLIAMS, Elizth Matron Widow F 40 1841 Matron (Hospital) Liverpool Lancashire VIEW
WATTS, Louisa Matron Single F 32 1849 Matron (Hospital) London, London
Middlesex

ALEXANDER, Ellen Inmate Single F 20 1861 Servant Liverpool Lancashire

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(Note the heads are hospital matrons - haven't listed all the other inmates)

Registration District: Salford
Civil Parish: Broughton

Address: 300, Gt Cheetham St, Broughton County: Lancashire

This could well be the death of Ellen's father:

Deaths Dec 1873
Alexander John 45 Manchester 8d 200

and possibly her mother:

Deaths Jun 1872
ALEXANDER Margaret 29 Manchester 8d 180

(These are from FreeBMD - http://www.freebmd.org.uk )

To add to MarieCeleste's post re the 1881, on the image the matrons are all "Matron of Home for W??", the last word could be women (all the inmates are women). "Hospital" has been written next to it in a different hand.