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There is a funeral notice for Henry Parker Wiseman on

http://ryersonindex.net/search.php

There is a online service - ask a librarian, they will be able to let you know the details that were published in the Sydney Morning Herald on the 7th September, 1903

Helen,

Herbert married in the U.K. see 1st post

Sorry, will have to wait & see when Sarah returns to her thread. I am sure, I will be well and truly asleep when she returns!!

Must have been posting together, will delete mine!!

Cannot find Herbert returning to Victoria, maybe arrived in N.S.W.

You can download, Herberts death certificate from

online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action

for about $A18.00

I have just got home from work and cannot believe how much information has been posted since I went to bed last night. I cannot thank you all enough.

I had almost given up hope of learning more about this branch of the family. I had looked into it some years ago and obtained Herbert's service record but had not been able to find any more. I only began to look again recently having recently because my mother was keen for me to try to find out about her grandfather.

This morning I found a couple of things that I'd obtained years ago and, interestingly, I realised that I had discounted Henry Parker Wiseman as being Herbert's father. The only record I could find online of a Rachael Wiseman was the marriage of Rachael Williams to Henry Parker Wiseman & thought this might be Herbert's parents. However, I obtained a copy of Henry's death certificate (from 1903) & whilst it listed his wife as Rachel, it listed his only living children as Maude, Oscar, Ina, Blanche, Harold and Clarence (but no Herbert). However, the evidence you have obtained Helen seems to suggest Herbert was indeed the son of Rachel Williams and Henry Parker Wiseman. I don't suppose you have found any trace of a birth record for Herbert?

I can't tell you how amazing it is to be getting somewhere and now I hope that one day I will be able to take my mother to Australia to visit her grandfather's grave.

As for Herbert's marriage, I'm not convinced that there was one, due to the fact that there was nothing in his service record and I can find no trace of it in UK BMD records. My grandfather's (Clarence Herbert Wiseman) birth certificate gives his father as Herbert Wiseman of the AIF and his mother as Emily Rose Wiseman (nee Richards). I think maybe, that Emily gave her surname as Wiseman because of the stigma of being an unmarried mother. Emily died when Clarance was young, but she led him to believe that Herbert had returned to action (which he had) and been killed. Sadly, my grandfather is no longer with us and never learnt that his father did not die in the war.

Thanks once again for all the information found so far,

Sarah

I don't know Helen. I guess it's a possibility. In fact, looking at the death certificate I have for Henry Parker Wiseman, the age of Oscar would tie in.

The death record you found for Herbert shows that he died in 1930, aged 52, which would mean that he was born about 1878. On Henry's death certificate from 1903 it lists Oscar as being 25 years old, which would also mean that he was born about 1878.

Hmmm, interesting.

Helen

I've been doing a bit more research and I think you are right. i think Oscar and Herbert are the same person.

I downloaded Herbert's death certificate, as you suggested, and it shows that he married Jane Fenwick in Newcastle, New South Wales when he was 20 years old (this would have been about 1898/99). It also shows that they had no children.

I then did a search of all marriage records of males called Wiseman in New South Wales between 1895 and 1910. I found a record of Oscar M Wiseman marrying Jennie Fenwick in Newcastle in 1900.

Surely Oscar must be Herbert. In order to be recorded as Herbert on official documentation, such as his enlistment papers and death certificate, would he have had to change his name officially or could you just start calling yourself something different in those days?

And I wonder what happened to Jennie/Jane??

Very mysterious, but at least I'm getting somewhere at last.

Sarah

Sarah,

If you look at the trove website, Oscar's divorce is in the S.M.H. dated 17th March, 1910. Just search for Oscar Wiseman.

It states that he was a comedian & sang in music halls, maybe he went under the name of Herbert!!

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/search?adv=y

Joy

I wonder if this is Jane's remarriage, divorce became final early 1910

12850/1910 Smith Thomas Fenwick Jane Newcastle

Thanks Joy and Helen