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I am trying to find the Birth Date and Place of Birth of my wife's ancestor George HAMILTON. I cannot find him in the 1841-1861 Census records. However, the 1871-1891 records suggest that he was born in either Enfield or Islington around 1836, and was an Iron Moulder. He married Ann HALL (born 1839 in Bishopsgate) in St Luke's Register Office in 1860. His marriage certificate suggests that his late father's name was Frederick George HAMILTON 'Engineer Deceased'. Between 1860 and his death in 1892, he appears to have moved around the St Luke, Islington, Hackney, Old Ford, and Bromley areas of London.

I have tried to crack this problem for several years, but so far with no success! Maybe he was born outside England and Wales. I would be most grateful for any help anyone can give. Thank You.
Victor

Could you post one of the censuses you found him in?
Thank-you

Added:
For reference
1871 England Census
George Hamilton
Age: 35 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836
Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Ann Hamilton
Gender: Male Where born: Islington, Middlesex, England
Civil parish: St Luke Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas Charterhouse
County/Island: London Country: England Registration district: Holborn
Sub-registration district: Whitecross Street
ED, institution, or vessel: 14 Household schedule number: 195 Piece: 408 Folio: 12 Page Number: 32
George Hamilton 35
Ann Hamilton 31
George Hamilton 10
Frederic C Hamilton 9
Alfred Hamilton 7
William Hamilton 5
Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 408; Folio: 12; Page: 32; GSU roll: 824627.

Hi Victor - welcome to the boards - here he is

1881

George HAMILTON Head M Male 45 Enfield, Middlesex, England Iron Moulder
Anne HAMILTON Wife M Female 41 Bishopsgate, Middlesex, England
George HAMILTON Son U Male 20 St Lukes, Middlesex, England Iron Moulder
Frederick HAMILTON Son Male 19 St Lukes, Middlesex, England Labourer Gen
William HAMILTON Son Male 17 St Lukes, Middlesex, England Bookbinder
Alfred HAMILTON Son Male 15 St Lukes, Middlesex, England Patter (...) (...)
Florence HAMILTON Daug Female 7 Old Ford, Middlesex, England Scholar
Katherine HAMILTON Daug Female 3 Old Ford, Middlesex, England Scholar
Alice HAMILTON Daug Female 11 m Bromley, Middlesex, England


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Source Information:
Dwelling 21 Stratfield Rd
Census Place London, Middlesex, England
Family History Library Film 1341110
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 0495 / 129
Page Number 30

George Hamilton
England and Wales Census, 1881
birth: 1836 Enfield,? Middlesex,? England
census: 1881 Bromley,? Middlesex,? England
spouse: Anne Hamilton
children: George Hamilton,? Frederick Hamilton...


name: George Hamilton
age: 45
gender: Male
birth year: 1836
birthplace: Enfield, Middlesex, England
relationship to head of household: Head
marital condition: Married
profession/occupation: Iron Moulder
address: 21 Stratfield Rd
census place: Bromley, Middlesex, England
record type: Household
family history library film: 1341110
the national archives reference: RG11
piece/folio: 495 / 129
page number: 30

???

1881

Frederick HAMILTON Head M Male 70 Strand, Middlesex, England Oil & Colourman
Johanna HAMILTON Wife M Female 67 Scotland


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Source Information:
Dwelling 29 Broad Street
Census Place London, Middlesex, England
Family History Library Film 1341028
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 0124 / 29
Page Number 13

This one has the right POB - he is in a school - too many other people to list them all:

1851 England Census
about George Hamilton
Name: George Hamilton
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1838
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Enfield, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: Edmonton
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image

Registration district: Edmonton
Sub-registration district: Edmonton
ED, institution, or vessel: 1c
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 90
Piece: 1703
Folio: 79
Page Number: 34

Address: West Side of Fore St, College House.

Have you eliminated this George please?

1841

Name: George Hamilton
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1837
Gender: Male
Where born: Middlesex, England

Civil parish: St Mary Islington West
Hundred: Ossulstone (Finsbury Division)
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:Lower Hun....ton Terrace (Difficult to dechipher)

Occupation: View image

Registration district: Islington
Sub-registration district: Islington West
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 665
Book: 6
Folio: 7
Page Number: 8
Household Members: Name Age
Selina Watkins 30 School Mistress
Anne Treacher 15 Teacher
Fanny Nisbett 13
Emma Nisbett 8
Elizabeth Ward 13
Lucy Powell 6
George Hamilton 4
Ann Mayer 14

There are two Hamilton boys in the same school in 1841:

Name: Chas Hamilton
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1828
Gender: Male
Where born: Middlesex, England

Civil parish: Edmonton
Hundred: Edmonton
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
on page
Piece: 652
Book: 3
Folio: 18
Page Number: 30

Chas Hamilton 13
Wm Hamilton 16

Hi there Victor - best reply on here rather than send messages - much better

Ann X

Thank you all for your contributions. I suspect that George Hamilton and two of his brothers (Charles and William) were pupils at West Side of Fore Street, College House, Edmonton, Enfield, in 1941. (In later life George and Ann Hamilton appeared to name two of their children after these brothers).

My problem remains to identify both parents. Frederick George HAMILTON was named as George's father in his marriage certificate of 1860, - but was reported 'deceased' by then (i.e. Frederick George HAMILTON (Engineer) had died by the time George HAMILTON got married in 1860).

So where now?


Kind regards
Victor

Sorry, I'm misleading you. The brothers were at West Side of Fore Street College House, Edmonton, Enfield in 1851 (not 1941!). I must be getting old!

Kind regards
Victor

:-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

Victor, re your PM saying that you think these three boys are your family and how do you find their parents:

I would guess that their father was either working away, possibly overseas, or dead before 1841. You will need to find their baptisms to find their mother's name. I have looked but can't find them. I have also tried looking for the other brothers on the census, but nothing obvious is coming up.

Just wiondered if this could be a brother. He is a civil engineer and in 1851 living with aunt and uncle Fraser's accompanied by brother Joseph b 1836. Both born in Ireland

1861 England Census
about Frederick Hamilton Name: Frederick Hamilton
Age: 27
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1834
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary Anne Hamilton
Gender: Male
Where born: Dublin, Ireland

Civil parish: St Luke
Ecclesiastical parish: Charterhouse St Thomas
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Registration district: St Luke
Sub-registration district: Whitecross Street
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 132
Piece: 206
Folio: 84
Page Number: 22
Household Members: Name Age
Frederick Hamilton 27
Mary Anne Hamilton 26
Frederick Hamilton 6
Helen M Hamilton 3
Florence E Hamilton 1


1851 England Census
about Fredk Hamilton Name: Fredk Hamilton
Age: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1834
Relation: Nephew
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Ireland

Civil parish: Islington
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Registration district: Islington
Sub-registration district: Islington East
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 105
Piece: 1501
Folio: 534
Page Number: 41
Household Members: Name Age
George Frase 44
Harriet Frase 40
Geo Frase 11
Frances J Frase 9
Horace Frase 7
Florence Frase 4
Percy Frase 3
Fredk Hamilton 17
Joseph Hamilton 15
Mary Ann Salter 18
Emily Woodward 16

Vera

Looks as if Frederick married Mary Ann Salter - that marriage cert would give his father's name and occupation, to confirm whether or not he is another brother:

Marriages Jun 1854 (>99%)
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>>>>>>HAMILTON Frederick St Pancras 1b 201
MOSS Elizabeth St Pancras 1b 201
>>>>>>Salter Mary Ann St Pancras 1b 201
SMITH John St Pancras 1b 201
SPINK John St Pancras 1b 201

How lovely to get such brilliant support! Thank you so much!
The only clues I had found to George HAMILTON's background in my own studies were from the names of his children, George, Frederick, William, Alfred, Florence, Katherine and Alice (1881 Census). I also suspected that I had found him at school in the 1841 and 1851 Censuses, though his given ages were a couple of years younger than what I had expected from his later census and marriage data. I knew his father's name (i.e. Frederick George HAMILTON) from George's marriage certificate of 1860 (at which time his father was reported dead).
The new possible 'Irish connection' is most interesting - and very feasible! The first marriage of George's future daughter-in-law (Blanche Adelaide JAMES; 1893) was to John BARNETT (born Ireland; Gas Stoker), the son of an Irish Fisherman, Bat BARNETT! George may well have stayed with or been brought up by Irish relatives in London if his parents had died early.

Many thanks for your help. I will check this info out!
Kind regards, Victor

I don't know whether to laugh or cry! Following up on Vera and Pottys' very feasible suggestions that George HAMILTON may have had a brother Frederick (born around 1834 in Ireland) I have just obtained the Certificate for Frederick's marriage to Mary Ann SALTER in St Pancras Registry Office in April 1854.

The good news is that both George and Frederick married in Registry Offices (although different ones - St Lukes and St Pancras, respectively).

Furthermore, Frederick's father was described as 'Engineer, Deceased' - the same occupation as that given by George for his father!

The less good news is that the name of Frederick's father is given simply as 'George HAMILTON' - not the 'Frederick George HAMILTON' given by his son George. Furthermore, young Frederick's occupation is given as 'Carpenter' in 1854 (though he may have progressed to 'Civil Engineer' by 1861.

It therefore still remains feasible that George and Frederick were brothers, and that George HAMILTON was also born in Ireland! I wonder. Can anyone find a George HAMILTON born to Frederick George HAMILTON (Engineer) in Ireland (Dublin?) around 1836?

I would be very grateful for any help on this problem, which has teased me for several years. Many thanks to you all for your helpful suggestions to date.

Kind regards
Victor

Victor

Good and bad news as you say. Can't understand the carpenter occupation for Frederick.. When with George Frase/Frasi in 1851 he was an apprentice and George Frasi employed men in an Iron Foundry.

I have looked around a couple of the Irish sites for Dublin births/baptisms and although a couple for George Hamilton 1836/37, they do not fit with father of Geroge Frederick or even just George Hamilton.

There is someone on Genes who post a lot about Irish sites. Can't remember name for now but maybe she could help. Will post link if I find it.

Maybe a further look at the Fraser/Frase/Frasi f amily might turn something up re their parents.

Regards

Vera

Many thanks for your help Vera. Yes, the origins of George HAMILTON really are a puzzle. His children were George, Frederick, William James, Alfred, Florence, Katherine and Alice, so I keep my eyes open for these names! The 'Frasi' family line still remains of interest, though like you I am puzzled by young Frederick's occupation as a Carpenter.

I still think that there is a good chance of George being born abroad, and that Ireland is as likely a place as any.

Regards

Victor

Hi Victor,

Could you give the following details from Georges and Fredericks marriage certificates please;

Their address given and the witnesses names please.