Find Ancestors

Thanks Cynthia :) I keep forgetting to use maps but as you say they do give you a better idea.

I will do Dea. I've a few certs to send off for so will definitely send off for that one and another suspected death (actually her father's death) which if true will mean that the youngest son doesn't belong to him (or his son's birth is a few years out on all census records - can't find his birth cert or baptism)

Hello SRS,

Apparently, there were 4 pubs in Queen Street about that time - sort of one on each corner scenario. The Cherry Tree Inn was on the corner of Queen Street and Chapel Street it seems.....(I did some googling)



I occasionally drive up (one way system) Queen Street and onto Chapel Street.....here is a link which will show give you an idea.

The houses have long gone and it is now mostly an area of car sales/repairs etc.



http://wigan.streetmapof.co.uk/queen-street/



Cx

Do let us know if that is the correct cert.

I do hope so, otherwise we will have to start searching again ;-)

Dea x

Finally managed to track down 97 Queen Street in the earlier 1891 census (the Taylors weren't living there then). This does confirm that 97&99 Queen Street was The Cherry Tree Inn.

So James Brown WAS living with his daughter when he died! :)

I always wondered about why he died in a pub lol. I thought that he may have been drinking there and died or he was lodging there.

It is more likely that he went to live with his daughter when his wife possibly died.

So Jane ran a pub when her husband died...wow that must have been a big step. Maybe her father was helping her out.

Just for my own reference this is the one that Gins suggested I purchase.

Deaths Dec 1898
-------------------------------------
Brown Ann 53 Wigan 8c 23

Thanks again.

Another death of Ann Brown Gins?

The other one I had problems with seems to have been deleted !!

Dea Xxx

Edit

Sorry L

I posted this as a test for Dea as she has lost the ability to c/p!!

Sorry Dea, I wasn't :)

I think I'll take a chance and order that certificate - thanks Dea and Gins. :)))

Sometimes I just need a little prompting.

I did know the Taylors were living in Queen Street, I knew it was the same Street but it didn't occur to me that it could be the same address.

I'll have to try and pin down where exactly Cherry Tree Inn was i.e. what number in the street but as Jane was a licensed victualler in 1901 it does seem obvious now.

I really don't know how I missed that connection!!! It really puts a different spin on things that perhaps Jane was running a pub.

I think that I was blinded by the fact that I discovered that James Brown was a canal boat builder on that certificate. (I knew he was a boat builder but it really made our day to discover that he made canal boats for some reason)

Thank you Dea!

I really can't thank everyone that has helped me on this thread enough.

Although I've posted quite on GR over the years (mainly chatting to be honest lol), I've very rarely (in comparison) asked for any help.

Everytime I have, I've been fortunate that kind people like yourselves have enlightened me and revealed things I haven't seen before.

I'll have to ask for more help on here :)

Thank you :)

Are you still there L ??

Dea Xxx

Well, I really can't find Ann after the1891and everything I find makes me think that she died before James.

I wondered why James address on his death cert was the Cherry Tree Inn and I find that this is where his daughter Jane (now married to John Taylor) was living in 1901.

If he went to live with her, could it be that he was now a widower??

It all leads back to that death which Gins posted for 1898 looking very probable??

It gives her age as 53 but it is a typed copy from the original records - I wonder if it could be 58 and the 8 has been misread and transcribed as a 3 ??

Dea x

Thanks Dea....that one didn't feel right. The gas and the ages & names of the other people didn't add up.

Thanks for checking. I really do appreciate this :)

Thanks Ann, I'll have to get to the LRO one day :)

I had a quick look on Ancestry but couldn't see anything for the young James but I may have missed it or the index is not quite complete. (I'll have to look into that)

Apologies if you don't hear from me for a few hours. I won't be on my computer.

Hope you all have a lovely day :)

You posted this above:

There's also this Ann (not quite right age), but who are the other people?

Brown
Brown William 68 23 Shaw St 12-Nov 1901 B 160 C of E
Brown Ann 66 23 St Patrick's Row 14-Mar 1903 B 160 C of E
Howarth
Howarth Robert 82 yrs 23 Patrick's Row 31-Jul 1915 B 160 C of E
Lee
Lee Ellen 71 yrs 32 Broom Rd. 28-Jan 1941 B 160 C of E


Just to say that this is NOT 'your' Ann as this one is born in Bury and married to William on 1911 cencus and the Ellen mentioned is her daughter.

Dea x

Not done too much of my own recently, partly because the LRO was closed for 4 months but will let you know if I need anything. thanks

For any wills proved at Liverpool or Lancaster copies are kept at the Lancs RO in lovely big bound volumes of beautiful copperplate writing. Some poor little clerks must have spent hours copying them out.

They also hold the probate indices up to 1966. I am not sure how complete ancestry probate indices are.

Thanks Ann. That's very kind. I didn't know they did wills. I've just sent off for his father's will (also called James) I haven't received it yet.

I'm not sure whether James jr had a will, I''ll take another look and see what i can find.

Do you need anything from Liverpool?

I owe you a look up - so if there is anything amongst this lot you think would benefit from looking at parish records / wills in the lancs RO let me know

Unfortunately there are gaps in the All Saints Wigan records both online & in the LRO. Baptisms for 1844-1864 are missing

Is there a will for James Brown I wonder?

Oh no, not another one Dea :) lol

(Tongue in cheek) :-D :-D

It MUST be the same one - his son married a SMITH!!

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1933
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
BROWN Douglas Grant SMITH Kathleen St. Michael & All Angels, Wigan Wigan & Leigh C31/3/345

Dea Xxx :-D :-D ;-)

Not quite Ann...lol

Thanks Dea.I'll put that on my to do list if I get to Wigan History shop in this year (assuming that they have those records)

:-D

This would be the marriage:

1903:
BROWN Thomas JOBSON Emily Martha St. Michael & All Angels,
Wigan Wigan & Leigh C31/1/365

It would be interesting to see what his occupation was at that time.

Dea x

P.S. - His son is Douglas GRANT Brown.

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1905
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
BROWN Douglas Grant Wigan Wigan & Leigh JOBSON WIG/244/301


Dea x

not quite cabinets then.........

Still looking for Ann Brown.

Unexpectedly found Thomas in 1901 (thanks Gins).

Need to check if Thomas in 1911 is the same one.

Name: Thomas Brown
Age in 1911: 39
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1872
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Gayhurst, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Wigan
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 12 Hornby St Wigan Lancs
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Commercial Traveller
Registration district: Wigan
Registration District Number: 458
Sub-registration district: Wigan
ED, institution, or vessel: 35
Piece: 23007
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Brown 39
Martha Emily Brown 33
Douglas Waud Brown 5

Ann - he sold tea, coffee, cocoa

he was married 7 years,

Gins found Ann's daughter Ellen Brown possibly!