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Margaret,
Yes if you could contact them it will be fab! It does sound like it could be them, and yes she could have meant Harold.
I am hoping that the birth certificate will give me some answers! they both appear to have the same birthdate so...... the only other option is not as possibility as there are children (!)
I do have to admit to an advantage on the twin thing as my sister has a few!!
No the Warren/Clarke is not a combo I have found yet....
.... and as for the crystal ball? I'm sure you must all have one hidden away somewhere the way you answere peeps queiry's sooooo quick!
Annette

It was yourself who suggested getting the BC for Patrick - and yes, it should show if he was a twin, cos it will give the time of day that he was born. Single births don't show the time.

Margaret

That is a nice post, Netty. For a newbie you are doing quite well.

There is a tree on Ancestry with Patricia Rosemary Officer who married Harold Warren. I will contact the person on your behalf, but they have not been active for over a year. They have no parents for either of them, but maybe they have just not updated their tree. They do have Patricia dying in 1973, and they do have 5 children (4 sons, 1 daughter) born to the couple.

They do also have the exact date of Patricia's birth, 1 April 1927 and death 8 April 1973. Also exact dates for Harold Warren who died only in 2010 - do you think that your cousin meant to say it was Harold who died recently?

His or her tree is called the Warren-Clarke Tree if that means anything to you. However, Patricia is the only Officer in his tree, and in fact there are only 21 people in the entire tree. So it is not hopeful or learning anything from them.

No, newbies don't drive any of us mad, we are glad to help, so long as they consider our advice.

That said, we are not experts, don't have any crystal balls, we are just ordinary researchers like yourself, with a bit more experience.

Best of luck

Margaret

thanks madmeg,

I have sent for Patricks birth certificate as suggested....

he died before Gillian arrived in 1936.... and yes i will have to get more details! I am trying to go easy on my 'new' found cousin....and Aunt! I dont want to scare them off straight away with my non stop questions.

thank you for all your help and wise words of wisdom... hope us newbees dont drive you too mad.x

So there is Patrick, older than Patricia, and older than AKC.

You weren't able to answer my question about how old Patrick was when he died. You said he was "young" - a child, a teenager, before the age of 40?

Nor able to tell me when Patricia died.

It ain't stacking up with online resources.

No death of Patrick Officer at all.

Name: WARREN, Patricia Rosemary
Registration District: Help Hastings
County: Sussex
Year of Registration: 1973
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Date of Birth: 1 April 1927
Volume No: 5H
Page No: 929

I discounted this because you said that she had died recently.

But there are other Patricia Rs who marry a Warren.

I think you have to go back to your cousin and ask for some specific dates and details. And then I think you have to spend some money to prove or disprove what she tells you. Believe me, it is very easy for descendants to be told something about their ancestors and get it mixed up, or only get half the story.

Hello all,

am i right in thinking that a bith certificate will show if some one was a twin?..... am struggling to find any reference to Patricia's birth.... can find weddings and death and have verbal confirmation of exsistance!
clutching at straws!....

hi Madmeg,
P hastings meant to be shorthand- sorry, Patricia in Hastings, her death.
I have from Gillians (sister of AKC and Patricia) daughter, message to confirm that there was indeed an older sister.
Gillians daughter met with her aunt (Patrici a)and uncle and knows her 5 cousins well.
Gillian is still alive and confirms there was a brother Patrick, born before Patricia, she also states that Patricia was older than my dad, AKC
thank you for your advice on not adding too many 'family' to tree..... its just so hard to keep track of all those bits of paper with notes on!!
am still trying to track down the paper work to confirm it all though"

Who is the P Hastings that you mention?

Nettie, I think you need to slow down a bit before adding too many people to your tree. Yes, I can see five children born to a Warren with mother's maiden name Officer. They might not be born to the same parents. Three of them could be born to Catherine Officer who married Aloysius Smith and then married Ignatius Warren (I am making those names up, you will realise).

What evidence do you have that "Patrick apparently died young", when you say you cannot find a death for him?

To get a little further, I would apply for the marriage cert of Patricia R Officer to Harold R Warren, to confirm (a) her age (b) her father's name
and (c) the names of any witnesses attending. I will bet my hind leg that there is no brother Patrick.

ps, thank you Madmeg.x

hi,
continuing the Patricia saga...
i managed to find a marriage

Patricia R Officer
Harold R Warren
1946
Dartford 2a 2584

then a death cert for P. Hastings 1973.... this gives a b date of 01/04/1927
but cannt find a b cert for this...

cannot find a death cert for Patrick who was a brother to AKC. know that Patricia is sister from Gillian also a sister. Patrick apparently died young...

Patricia and Harrold had 5 children too!

thanks so far for all your help, my tree and family is growing fast now.xx

No death for Patricia up to 2006 - how recently did she die?

Well, his brother Pat is older than Alan.

HAHA - was the birth of Patrick wrongly recorded - there is no marriage for him, but there is this:

Name: OFFICER, Patricia R
Registration District: Help Dartford
County: Kent
Year of Registration: 1946
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Spouse's last name: Warren
Volume No: Help 2A
Page No: Help 2584

Name: WARREN, Harold R
Registration District: Dartford
County: Kent
Year of Registration: 1946
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Spouse's last name: Officer
Volume No: 2A
Page No: 2584

Thank you Flick,
awaiting reply from cousin still...
previous email says ... Patricia was older than AKC ?????
but will save this info for now!
Annette

There would have been no point in looking for a further marriage for Hilda.......her maiden name wouldn't change, no matter how many times she married

Albert's parents..........he was an only child

Marriages Jun 1907 (>99%
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ASHDOWN Laura Woolwich 1d 1871
OFFICER Albert Edward Woolwich 1d 1871

1911 census - household transcription
Person: OFFICER, Albert Edward
Address: 1 Carey Cotts Lion Road Bexleyheath


OFFICER, Albert Edward Head Married M 38 1873 Butler Domestic Northamptonshire Weeden VIEW
OFFICER, Laura Wife Married F 37 1874 Kent Bexleyheath VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
3729 Reference:
RG14PN3729 RG78PN141 RD43 SD1 ED9 SN193

Registration District:
Dartford Sub District:
Bexley Enumeration District:
9 Parish:
Bexley

Address:
1 Carey Cotts Lion Road Bexleyheath County:
Kent

Ask your 'cousin' for documentary proof of his/her statements about 'Patricia' being Alan's 'sister'

Common sense dictates that she is the product of the 1939 marriage, posted above.

???????????her father's death

Name: Albert Edward Officer
Birth Date: 28 Jun 1912
Date of Registration: May 1996
Age at Death: 83
Registration district: Bromley
Inferred County: Kent
Register number: B28
District and Subdistrict: 2221B
Entry number: 91

And birth.................

Births Sep 1912 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Officer Albert E Ashdown Dartford 2a 1168

Patrick and Patricia are two different births. I can find no connection yet between Alexander and Albert E - was hoping they were brothers.

I don't think the birth cert of either Patrick or Patricia will tell you anything that we don't already know from the bmds. Not impossible, but unlikely.

Hi all,
do we think Patrick R was a misheard Patricia......??
will send for birth certificate I think....
ta for your help so far..
Annette

thank you,
I will try to contact her again...... her mother is still alive so hopefully will get more info..
your all stars!!