Find Ancestors

I obviously need a lesson in how this works. I've only just found this series of threads. Oh dear - In view of your latest ideas - Do I need to go to Poor Law records or something like that now? I collected a Westminster City Archives sheet at the weekend and there is a record called Workhouse inmates list (including admission and discharge details) 1812 - 1836 for St Mary le Strand. I think I might email them tomorrow - or have you any other thoughts?
I agree - I don't think John Westnedge (supposed father) ever existed and "illegitimate" is clear enough in the margin. Looking at records, there is a chance that Harriet's parents were John and Elizabeth so she or her son could just have used that name when needed.
Margaret woN

Think you wre given the wrong advice Margaret :-D

Most of us reply to many threads each day and sometimes find that we have no idea what the private message relates to (I cant remember what I did an hour ago let alone a couple of days :-D)

Glad you returned though

jax

Nice to see you Margaret - just let us know if we can be of further help.

Dea x

Sorry about not using the thread. I asked on the GR stand at the show and was advised to reply to each individual rather than a general thank you! I'll gladly respond here now and in future.

"as certified to me" looks very good! "father"- comparing his "F" elsewhere - that also looks and sounds good now. "Engineer" - the first letter could well be his badly written capital "E". You've all convinced me. (I've been having trouble saving it to my computer and reversing the colours)

The rector seems to be variously described as Joshua Frederick Denham MA and J F Denham MA.

We've got other family connections with Hollis or Holles Street, Clare Market so we are very happy with that.

I am so delighted to have got this far. It's been a puzzle for years. Thank you all SO much for your interest and your help !! :-) :-) :-)

Onward with the next step and I'll certainly come back next time I get stuck!

Margaret woN (wife of Nick)

Lol, a case of wishful thinking Dea. Good for us to work on though.

(another PM from Nick, have advised him to come back to 'Thread')...

Chris :)

Yes Chris, - there was one on the page aftyer John's too, though I couldn't read it but that too was certified to J.F. Denham.

I think we have been mistaken here and, disappointing though it is, I don't think the coments had anything to do with a 'father.

I noticed on John's second marriage that he again gave his father as John (deceased), but this time gave his father's occupation as a Butcher?

Still don't think he existed though ;-)

Dea Xxx

Name: James Robinson Baris
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1850
Baptism Date: 20 Oct 1850
Father's Name: Samuel Baris
Mother's name: Mary Ann Baris
Parish or Poor Law Union: Westminster St Mary Le Strand
Borough: Westminster
Register Type: Bishop's Transcript

(Dea, what do you think on above image 2 yrs later, looks like Joseph Edwards M a officiating Minister as certified by me?)...

Chris :)

edits (and some more, same time frame)

Well, I keep looking and I think we ('I') have got it all wrong :-D

I think the Joseph Edwards M.A. (detailed above by Chris) is the person who carried out the baptism and this was then certified by the Rector J.F. Denham!

The writing is SO poor that I can make it read almost anything :-(

I don't, after all, believe that the comments relate to a 'possible' father!

Dea x

Lol, well area would fit.

Quite a bit on google, Joshua Frederick Denham, Rector, as it says certified to me, could it have been a Joseph Edwards? M a engaging in practice?...lol.

Must be orf'' now, but do hope we get to the bottom of it!.

Chris :)

edits (wonder if it's below)

Cambridge University Alumni, 1261-1900
about Joseph. Edwards
Name: Joseph. Edwards B.A. M.A.
College: TRINITY
Entered: Michs. 1820
Died: 1875
1825; priest (London) Dec. 24, 1826; P.C. of Wattisham and Brice, Suffolk. Second Master at King's College School, London, 1833-55. Clerical Examiner at Christ's Hospital, 1835-55. Chaplain to Fishmongers' Co. and Evening Lecturer at St Mary-le-Strand, London, 1841-55. ***

That's what I thought Chris.

Looks the same as the M.A. after the Rector's name at the bottom ???

But that doesn't seem to make sense.

I also think the next word starts with a 'Uph ???' - I have found a Joseph on 1841 who is an 'Upholster'???

1841:

EDWARDS, Elizabeth F 65 1776 Middlesex - Upholster
EDWARDS, Joseph M 35 1806 Middlesex - Upholster

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Piece:
738 Book/Folio:
13/20 Page:
33 Registration District:
Westminster

Civil Parish:
St Margaret Municipal Borough:
Westminster Address:
Strutton Ground, St Margaret, Westminster County:
Middlesex


Dea x

Having another look, instead of Mill, is that M. a...

Chris :)

WOW, Dea


I tried and tried to make that out!!!



but it does definitely say illegitimate in the left margin .


............ so is he father as known to John OR a made up name?!




sylvia

I believe it says "Joseph Edwards Mill ???? (not certain it is engineer), father as certified to me.

Then signed J.F. Denham M.A., Rector.

Dea x

Lol, let's hope so!, and he lets us know!.

Chris :)

I also got a pm from Nick


he is going to try the reverse image as I suggested above, it might possibly produce something more readable!

PM received too, have also advised Nick to come back to 'Thread'.

I could make out the address as Hollis Street, Clare Market, but not writing in last column, looks like Sylvia had a go...think Vaughan is in there somewhere!. Did notice on the Marriage image, the Curate was a Samuel Vaughan...(sends your eyeballs a bit boggley after a while, lol)

Chris :)

Nick

Thanks for your pm's much appriciated...but

Could you reply on the threads please by adding a comment at the bottom of all the postings

found thank you

Just to enlighten you........

The fact that only the mother's name is recorded is sufficient evidence of the child's illegitimacy

In early years, the mother was considered hardly worth mentioning - if you look at 18th century baptisms, you will find that it was far from unusual for the mother's name to be omitted completely. Only the father got a mention

The info I posted was from familysearch site,where the DOB is clearly shown

I agree with Chris that Illegitimate is written int he margin


That is actually a very interesting baptism entry in the Parish Register!

It notes that he was born September 1828, but was not baptised until 20 June 1847


and there is a note in the column where the Vicar signed regarding a Joseph Edwards, Mill Engineer ...... but it is very hard to read.

It might be possible to save the image to your computer, and then do a reverse image (ie white on black) and see if you can read it.



sylvia