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I cannot find a marriage between Herbert Clifford born abt 1879 Darlaston, Staffordshire and Mary Mantle born abt 1880, Wolverhampton, Staffordshire.

1901 census they are married, living in Manchester
1911 census they are in Coventry, Warwickshire, two children, married 11yrs.

Please can anyone see this couples marriage....I need to buy the cert to confirm the other info I have.....

Marriage is the only info I need, Thank you

Misty x

Sorry I can't see their marriage either.

Kayx

Thank you for looking for me Kay...

I do wonder if they never married, just fibbed about it, hope not, I need to confirm I have the correct Mary Mantle by her fathers name (if there is one on the cert) to go further back, with confidence I have the right family....

Misty x

Have you got her name from one of the childrens birth certs?

Is it possible she was married before ?

This is the only one born Wolverhampton
Name: Mary Mantle
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1880
Registration district: Wolverhampton
Inferred County: Shropshire, Staffordshire, West Midlands
Volume: 6b
Page: 547

1891
Name: Mary Mantle
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William Mantle
Mother's Name: Jane Mantle
Gender: Female
Where born: Wolverhampton
Civil parish: Wolverhampton
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mark
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Wolverhampton
Sub-registration district: Wolverhampton Western
ED, institution, or vessel: 30
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2230
Folio: 23
Page Number: 13
Household Members:
Name Age
William Mantle 42
Jane Mantle 35
Charles Mantle 15
Thomas Mantle 13
Mary Mantle 11
Emily Mantle 8

Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 2230; Folio: 23; Page: 13; GSU roll: 6097340.


sister Emily is with brother Thomas but no Mary so seems likely she was "married" by then

no Mary mantle comes up for the 1901 census.


All posted for elimination purposes

that 1899 marriage this is the page nos

Page Number: 1139

I see your problem. Maybe they ran off together and never got round to the marriage.

I can see there is a marriage of a Mary Mantle b 1880 Woverhampton (based on Anc trees)to a Frederick William Spencer in 1899 with parents William and Jane which is presumably the wrong family.

Based on the birth place in 1911 given as Willenhall the parents of Stephen and Jane Mantle seem a reasonable possiblity, but this doesn't prove it. Maybe the use of Stephen as Herbert and Mary's third child helps to confirm this

Kayx

Shirley...

I got her name from the birth cert of son Stephen James Clifford...

Mother Mary Clifford, formally Mantle
Father Herbert Clifford
Address..Princess St, Coventry....as on 1911 census

I guess it could be possible she was married before but goodness knows where I would find that one!!

Misty x

1901 that Mary is listed and married to Frederick T Spencer

SPENCER, Frederick T Head Married M 23 1878 Metal Polisher (Washers & C)
Wolverhampton
Staffordshire VIEW
SPENCER, Mary Wife Married F 21 1880 Metal Polisher (Washers & C)
Wolverhampton
Staffordshire VIEW
SPENCER, Lily Jane Daughter F 0 (10 MOS) 1901
Wolverhampton
Staffordshire VIEW
TIBBITTS, William Boarder Widower M 60 1841 Turner Of Steel (Cycle Fittings)
Wolverhampton
Staffordshire VIEW
TIBBITTS, Henry Boarder Single M 12 1889
Wolverhampton
Staffordshire VIEW
Piece:
2676 Folio:
23 Page:
38 Registration District:
Wolverhampton

Civil Parish:
Wolverhampton Municipal Borough:
Address:
24, Russell Street, Wolverhampton County:
Staffordshirire

so not YOUR Mary Mantle

The only other one was born Cannock
1881 census
MANTLE, Edward Head Married M 23 1858 Coal Miner
Wolverhampton
Staffordshire VIEW
MANTLE, Elizabeth Wife Married F 22 1859
Walsall
Staffordshire VIEW
MANTLE, Mary Daughter Single F 1 1880
Cannock
Staffordshire VIEW
MANTLE, Martha Daughter Single F 0 1881
Cannock
Staffordshire VIEW
Piece:
2784 Folio:
39 Page:
29 Registration District:
Cannock

Civil Parish:
Cannock Municipal Borough:
Address:
John Street, Cannock County:
Staffordshire



if your Mary was def born Wolverhampton then theres only the one birth

Poss Mary Mantle in 1891 based on Willenhall birth in 1911

1891

Name: Mary Mantle
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1881
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Stephen Mantle
Mother's Name: Mary A Mantle
Gender: Female
Where born: Willenhall, Staffordshire, England

Civil parish: Willenhall
Ecclesiastical parish: St Giles
Town: Willenhall
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image

Registration district: Wolverhampton
Sub-registration district: Willenhall
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2237
Folio: 49
Page Number: 12
Household Members:
Name Age
Stephen Mantle 43
Mary A Mantle 34
Elizabeth Mantle 15
Edward Mantle 12
Mary Mantle 10
Stephen Mantle 8
John T Mantle 6
Eliza Mantle 2
Walter Mantle 1/12
Thomas Peart 69

looks like the Cannock one is still at home in 1901

MANTLE, Edward Head Married M 43 1858 Coal Hewer
Bilston
Staffordshire VIEW
MANTLE, Elizth Wife Married F 42 1859
Walsall
Staffordshire VIEW
MANTLE, Mary Daughter Single F 21 1880
Hedensford
Staffordshire VIEW
MANTLE, Hannah Daughter Single F 16 1885
Cannock
Staffordshire VIEW
MANTLE, Horace Son Single M 13 1888 Butchers Assistant
Cannock
Staffordshire VIEW
MANTLE, Arthur E Son Single M 9 1892
Scarcliffe
Derbyshire VIEW
MANTLE, Susannah Daughter Single F 7 1894
Mansfield
Nottinghamshire VIEW
MANTLE, May Daughter Single F 4 1897
Mansfield
Nottinghamshire VIEW
MANTLE, Nellie Son Single F 2 1899
Mansfield
Nottinghamshire VIEW
Piece:
3140 Folio:
189 Page:
10 Registration District:
Mansfield

Civil Parish:
Mansfield Municipal Borough:
Address:
(Sherwood Mill), Pecks Hill, Mansfield County:
Nottinghamshire



So points back to that 1880 birth reg Wolverhampton for your Mary

Shirley....I have this one

1901 Mary Clifford
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Herbert Clifford
Gender: Female
Where born: Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England

Civil parish: Manchester
Ecclesiastical parish: Newton Heath St Augustine
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: Manchester
Sub-registration district: St George

Herbert Clifford 22
Mary Clifford 21
Agnes Price 3

I have looked for a Mantle/Price marriage but cant see one!!

Misty x

Marriages Jun 1899 (>99%)
Illidge Alfred Wolverhampton 6b 1139
Mantle Mary Wolverhampton 6b 1139
Porter Lucy Wolverhampton 6b 1139
Spencer Frederick Thomas Wolverhampton 6b 1139

1901 - Wolverhampton. Both above couples appear in census

Frederick T and Mary Spencer
Alfred and Lucy Illidge
Different Mary Mantle, they are not uncommon??

1911 - Frederick and Mary still in Wolverhampton with children and Mother in law Jane Mantle age 56 b Wolverhampton

The 1891 census given above by K does not seem to come up on Findmypast (at least I can't see it). This is the only likely one on Findmypast:-

MANTLE, William Head Married M 42 1849 Cabinet Locksmith
Bridgnorth
MANTLE, Jane Wife Married F 35 1856
Wolverhampton
MANTLE, Charles Son Single M 16 1875 Iron Plate Worker
Wolverhampton
MANTLE, Thomas Son Single M 13 1878 Errand Boy
Wolverhampton
MANTLE, Mary Daughter Single F 11 1880 Scholar
Wolverhampton <<<<<<<<<<
MANTLE, Emily Daughter Single F 8 1883 Scholar
Wolverhampton

Address:
15, Brook Street, Wolverhampton

This seems to fit in with the Wolverhampton birth given earlier, and the birth place of Willenhall given in the 1911 census would come under the Wolverhampton Registration District.

Kath. x

Same family in the 1881 census:-

MANTLE, William Head Married M 32 1849 Locksmith
Bridgenorth
Shropshire VIEW
MANTLE, Jane Wife Married F 26 1855
W Hampton
Staffordshire VIEW
MANTLE, Charles Son Single M 5 1876 Scholar
W Hampton
Staffordshire VIEW
MANTLE, Thomas Son Single M 3 1878
W Hampton
Staffordshire VIEW
MANTLE, Mary Daughter Single F 1 1880
W Hampton
Staffordshire

Address:
2, Ct, Lt Brickiln St, Wolverhampton

Piece: 2795
Folio: 60
Page: 13
Registration District: Wolverhampton

Kath. x

I've checked Findmypast again and the Mary Mantle with Stephen and Mary A. as parents has been transcribed as Mande - but the image definitely looks like Mantle.

I don't know how you will work out which one is yours as there only seems to be one birth in Wolverhampton - not two, and without a marriage certificate it seems impossible to decide.

Kath. x

I deleted my last post to Kath....it was all RUBBISH...sorry


Misty x

This is the census I posted re Mary born in Willenhall in 1891 with father Stephen. I can't see it on FMP either. I still like the tie in of Mary and Herberts son in 1911 with the father here.

Kayx

Name: Mary Mantle
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1881
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Stephen Mantle
Mother's Name: Mary A Mantle
Gender: Female
Where born: Willenhall, Staffordshire, England

Civil parish: Willenhall
Ecclesiastical parish: St Giles
Town: Willenhall
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image

Registration district: Wolverhampton
Sub-registration district: Willenhall
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2237
Folio: 49
Page Number: 12
Household Members:
Name Age
Stephen Mantle 43
Mary A Mantle 34
Elizabeth Mantle 15
Edward Mantle 12
Mary Mantle 10
Stephen Mantle 8
John T Mantle 6
Eliza Mantle 2
Walter Mantle 1/12
Thomas Peart 69

Edit I think this is the FMP version

MANDE, Stephen Head Married M 43 1848 Night Soil Labourer
Willenhall
Staffordshire VIEW
MANDE, Mary A Wife Married F 34 1857
Bilston
Staffordshire VIEW
MANDE, Elizabeth Daughter F 15 1876 Lock Maker
Willenhall
Staffordshire VIEW
MANDE, Edward Son M 12 1879 Scholar
Willenhall
Staffordshire VIEW
MANDE, Mary Daughter F 10 1881 Scholar
Willenhall
Staffordshire VIEW
MANDE, Stephen Son M 8 1883 Scholar
Willenhall
Staffordshire VIEW
MANDE, John T Son M 6 1885 Scholar
Willenhall
Staffordshire VIEW
MANDE, Eliza Daughter F 2 1889
Willenhall
Staffordshire VIEW
MANDE, Walter Son M 0 (1M) 1891
Willenhall
Staffordshire VIEW
PEART, Thomas Lodger Widower M 69 1822 Brush Maker
Kirmington
Lincolnshire VIEW
Piece:
2237 Folio:
49 Page:
12 Registration District:
Wolverhampton

Civil Parish:
Willenhall Municipal Borough:
Address:
4, Bow Street, Willenhall County:
Staffordshire