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Ca someone please help -----

I just cannot find a marriage nor the birth of Arthur --- possible senior moment ¿


1871 census transcription details for: Croydon Rd, West Side Penge
Reference: RG number: RG10 Piece: 851 Folio: 56 Page: 6

Reg. District: Croydon Sub District: Croydon
Parish: Enum. District: 51
Ecclesiastical District: City/Municipal Borough:

Address: Croydon Rd, West Side, Penge
County: Surrey

Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born
________________________________________
PALMER, Joseph Head M 29 1842 Suffolk Wolpit
________________________________________
PALMER, Eliza H Wife F 25 1846 Surrey - Vauxhall
________________________________________
PALMER, Arthur Son M 5 1866 Surrey Walworth
________________________________________

and again i 1881

1881 census transcription details for: 9, Southey Road, Penge National Archive Reference: RG number: RG11 Piece: 824 Folio: 30 Page: 54

Reg. District: Croydon Sub District: Croydon
Parish: Penge Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District: City/Municipal Borough:

Address: 9, Southey Road, Penge
County: Surrey

Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation ,
Disability Where Born
________________________________________
PALMER, Josiah Head Married M 39 1842 Potman Woolput
Suffolk
________________________________________
PALMER, Elizabeth Wife Married F 35 1846 London Vauxhall, London
Middlesex
________________________________________
PALMER, Arthur Son Single M 15 1866 Errand Boy Walworth
Surrey
________________________________________
PALMER, Ernest Son Single M 9 1872 Penge
Surrey
________________________________________
PALMER, Eleanor Daughter Single F 7 1874 Croydon
Surrey
________________________________________
PALMER, Edmund Son Single M 5 1876 Croydon
Surrey
________________________________________

Arthur Palmer
England and Wales Census, 1881
birth: 1866 Walworth,? Surrey,? England
census: 1881 Penge,? Surrey,? England
parents: Josiah Palmer,? Elizabeth Palmer


name: Arthur Palmer
age: 15
gender: Male
birth year: 1866
birthplace: Walworth, Surrey, England
relationship to head of household: Son
marital condition: Single
profession/occupation: Errand Boy
address: 9 Southey Road
census place: Penge, Surrey, England
record type: Household
family history library film: 1341194
the national archives reference: RG11
piece/folio: 824 / 30
page number: 54

thanks Ann ............but is that not the ·same· as the 1881 census I posted


or am I having another senior moment

Have you managed to find Joseph/Josiah and/or Elizabeth in 1911 - that would give you the year they married

Jude

Possible births

Births Mar 1865 (>99%)
PALMER Arthur Charles St. George S. 1d 168
Births Jun 1866 (>99%)
Palmer Arthur T Rotherhithe 1d 622
Births Sep 1866 (>99%)
PALMER Arthur C St Saviour 1d 17

Both St George and St Saviour are in Southwark which I think is the closest to Walworth

HeyJude ..................Yes I saw those ---- Arthur Charles and C s - I discounted as 1911 says says Arthur T --------his marriage entry gives Thomas Arthur .....

I agree the Arthur T does look the best --- BUT Rotherhithe does not cover Walworth .... so he is my first reserve ...................


And had no joy with 1911

.

I reckon this is why you can't find Josiah in 1911 (or 1901 come to that)

Name: Josiah Palmer
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1842
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1893
Age at Death: 51
Registration district: Croydon
Inferred County: Surrey
Volume: 2a
Page: 152 (click to see others on page)

HeyJude

Deaths Mar 1893
Palmer Josiah 51 Croydon 2a 152


and cannot find Eliza after 1891

Thanks

Here's Elizabeth in 1901..and she's taken (in 1891 and 1901) to being Eliza A

Name: Lawrence E Palmer
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1887
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Eliza A Palmer
Gender: Male
Where born: Penge, Surrey, England
Civil parish: Beckenham
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
Town: Beckenham
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Bromley
Sub-registration district: Beckenham
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 64
Piece: 689
Folio: 103
Page Number: 9
Household Members:
Name Age
Eliza A Palmer 54
Walter E Palmer 25
Lawrence E Palmer 14

snap Jude

I reckon this is her death...so she's about in 1911 if this is her but it won't necessarily show length married because she is widowed

Name: Eliza A Palmer
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1914
Age at Death: 68
Registration district: Lambeth
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1d
Page: 395 (click to see others on page)

Name: Josiah Palmer
Age: Full Age
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865
Spouse Name: Eliza Ann Sterne
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 12 Nov 1865
Parish: Newington St Mary
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: John Palmer (Labourer)
Spouse Father Name: Thomas Sterne (Leather Seller)
Register Type: Parish Register

(an idea, Occ. of Josiah says Furniture Porter, address for both, Trafalgar Street, witnesses, Thomas Sterne, Susannah Simpson)

Chris :)

Freebmd version


Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Dec 1865 (>99%)
Hyrons Charles Matthew Newington 1d 295
Palmer Josiah Newington 1d 295
STERNE Eliza Ann Newington 1d 295
West Harriette Newington 1d 295

Good find Chris :-)

Name: Joseph Palmer
Spouse Name: Eliza Ann Sterne
Record Type: Banns
Event Date: 1 Oct 1865
Parish: Newington St Mary
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Register

(Banns, does say Josiah on image, called 17th, 24th, Sept, 1st Oct)

Chris :)

Chris ....................Once again you found a little gem ................


When I am in the deep doo dah .............. A telephone box arrives xxxxxxxxxxxxx


Have also now to admit to my senior moment ............... It had not registered

Joseph / Josiah ......( Thanks Jude ) ......... think I have been searching all morning for

Joseph.......or it could have bee Josiah ...either way NADA


My Thanks to both xxx
Yhankj

Best guess at 1911 for you


Name: Eliza Palmer
Age in 1911: 65
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Birth Place: London, United Kingdom
Civil parish: Bermondsey
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 48 Esmeralda Rd, Bermondsey S E
Marital Status: Widowed
Registration district: St Olave (Bermondsey)
Registration District Number: 24
Sub-registration district: Bermondsey
ED, institution, or vessel: 23
Piece: 1891
Household Members:
Name Age
Eliza Palmer 65
Anne Aylott 64

BUT Rotherhithe does not cover Walworth...but it's only 3.4 miles away :-)

So this is Arthur's marriage...


Marriages Dec 1892 (>99%)
CLARK Betsy Maria Croydon 2a 483
CLARKE Betsy Maria Croydon 2a 483
HASTINGS John Thomas Croydon 2a 483
Horley Ruth Croydon 2a 483
Palmer Thomas Arthur Croydon 2a 483

And I found him in 1911

Hey Jude

Yes I tend to agree ------ to both postings


I reckon

Births Jun 1866
Palmer Arthur T Rotherhithe 1d 622 ........is my Boy


will really need a cert .......unless he is he is LMA -----

giving a father Josiah


Thank you again xxxx

ooo ooh Hey Jude


Just seen the 1901 census


Brilliant

Thank You