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I wonder is there anyone out there who could find out for me if Matthew Geddes b 1839 in Lochmaben Scotland to Matthew Geddes and Mary Boyes (sometimes mis-spelt Biges) is the same Matthew Geddes who married Sarah Rogerson from the same area. There seems to be 2 Matthew Geddeses born the same year from the same area with 2 different families but I can't discover which is which. Thank you.

There is a tree with one of these gentlemen on it but unfortunately the lady must have left the site as she has not replied to a few requests.

Hello Janet, you could try checking the two marriages out on Scotland's people.
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/

It's pay per view but the credits are reasonably priced.

Are these your two marriages?

Spouse: Jane Richardson

groom's name: Matthew Geddes
bride's name: Jane Richardson
marriage date: 06 Aug 1868
marriage place: Lochmaben,Dumfries,Scotland
indexing project (batch) number: M11840-1
system origin: Scotland-ODM
source film number: 6035516


spouse: Sarah Rogerson

groom's name: Matthew Geddes
bride's name: Sarah Rogerson
marriage date: 29 Nov 1861
marriage place: Lochmaben,Dumfries,Scotland
indexing project (batch) number: M11840-1
system origin: Scotland-ODM
source film number: 6035516

1861 Scotland Census about Mathew Geddes
Name: Mathew Geddes
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1837
Relationship: Servant
Gender: Male
Where born: Ruthwell, Dumfriesshire
Registration number: 840
Registration district: Lochmaben
Civil parish: Lochmaben
County: Dumfriesshire
Address: Thoniewhat
Occupation: Shepherd
ED: 3
Household schedule number: 45
Line: 1
Roll: CSSCT1861_144
Household Members:
Name Age
John Dick 36
Jane Dick 27
Maron Dick 1
Jane Dick 6 Mo
William Cravens 40
Neil Mcalister 18
>>Mathew Geddes 24
John Keir 15
Catherin Barben 27
>>Sarah Rogerson 19



1861 Scotland Census about Matther Geddes
Name: Matther Geddes
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Relationship: Son
Father's Name: Matthew Geddes
Mother's Name: Mary Geddes
Gender: Male
Where born: Annan, Dumfriesshire
Registration number: 840
Registration district: Lochmaben
Civil parish: Lochmaben
County: Dumfriesshire
Address: Mosside
Occupation: Ag Labourer
ED: 6
Household schedule number: 54
Line: 10
Roll: CSSCT1861_144
Household Members:
Name Age
Matthew Geddes 48
Mary Geddes 48
Matther Geddes 22
Villet Geddes 15
Jannet Geddes 13
Daivd Geddes 11
William Geddes 8


I would say that this Matthew married Jane not Sarah. He is still at home, same address as 1851. The top census has both Sarah and Matthew working together so the possibly married.
Of course, the only way to be certain is to get the marriage certificate from scotlandspeople as has already been suggested.

1851 Scotland Census about Matth Geddes
Name: Matth Geddes
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840
Relationship: Son
Father's Name: Matthew Geddes
Mother's Name: Mary Geddes
Gender: Male
Where born: Annan, Dumfries
Parish Number: 840
Civil parish: Lochmaben
County: Dumfriesshire
Address: Mosside
Occupation: Scholar
ED: 5
Page: 2 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 4
Line: 3
Roll: CSSCT1851_209
Household Members:
Name Age
Matthew Geddes 39
Mary Geddes 39
Matth Geddes 11
Thomas Geddes 9
Mary Geddes 7
Velat Geddes 5
Jannet Geddes 3
David Geddes 1


1841 England Census about Mathew Geddes
Name: Mathew Geddes
Age: 2
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Gender: Male
Where born: Scotland

Civil parish: Greystoke
Hundred: Leath
County/Island: Cumberland
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

View image

Registration district: Penrith
Sub-registration district: Greystoke
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 172
Book: 18
Folio: 7
Page Number: 8
Household Members:
Name Age
Mathew Geddes 25
Mary Boyes 25
James Geddes 5
Joseph Geddes 4
Mathew Geddes 2



and the other Matthew.

1851 Scotland Census about Matthew Geddes
Name: Matthew Geddes
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1835
Relationship: Apprentice
Gender: Male
Where born: Lochmaben, Dumfriesshire
Parish Number: 840
Civil parish: Lochmaben
County: Dumfriesshire
Address: Parkfoots
Occupation: Stokingmaker App
ED: 3
Page: 12 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 36
Line: 1
Roll: CSSCT1851_209
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary Bell 51
Robert Bell 31
John Bell 28
Thomas Bell 22
Benjamin Carnuthers 20
Joseph Irving 13
Matthew Geddes 16
Elizabeth Robson 20
Agnes Bell 32
James Bell 12
Agnes Bell 9
Elizabeth Bell 6
Peter Bell 4
Alexander Bell 1
Susan Jenning 29


1841 Scotland Census about Matthew Geddies
Name: Matthew Geddies
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1834
Gender: Male
Where born: Dumfriesshire, Scotland

Civil parish: Lochmaben
County: Dumfriesshire
Address: Hightae Village
Parish Number: 840
Household Members:
Name Age
William Geddie 40
Janat Wright 38
Martha Geddies 11
Mary Geddies 9
Matthew Geddies 7
James Geddies 5
Elisabeth Geddies 3
William Geddies 6 Mo

2 Marriages....

1861
Matthew Geddes,,,is the son of William Geddes and Janet Wright,

1868.
Matthew Geddes...is the son of James Geddes and Mary Rae.

parents: Matthew Geddes,? Mary Boyes

name: Matthew Geddes
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 26 May 1839
baptism/christening place: , ANNAN, DUMFRIES, SCOTLAND
birth date: 17 May 1839
father's name: Matthew Geddes
mother's name: Mary Boyes
indexing project (batch) number: C11812-4
system origin: Scotland-VR
source film number: 1067955

Children for Matthew and Mary Boyes.

Matthew Geddes

Scotland, Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950

birth: 17 May 1839
christening: 26 May 1839 ,? ANNAN,? DUMFRIES,? SCOTLAND
residence: 1839 Annan,? Dumfries,? Scotland

parents: Matthew Geddes,? Mary Boyes

Joseph Geddes

Scotland, Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950

birth: 03 Jul 1837
christening: 09 Jul 1837 ,? ANNAN,? DUMFRIES,? SCOTLAND
residence: 1837 Annan,? Dumfries,? Scotland

parents: Matthew Geddes,? Mary Boyes

William Rae Geddes

Scotland, Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950

birth: 25 Feb 1852
christening: 07 Mar 1852 ,? LOCHMABEN,? DUMFRIES,? SCOTLAND
residence: 1852 Lochmaben,? Dumfries,? Scotland

parents: Matthew Geddes,? Mary Boyes

Martha Geddes

Scotland, Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950

birth: 24 Jan 1834
christening: 04 Feb 1834 ,? LOCHMABEN,? DUMFRIES,? SCOTLAND
residence: 1834 Lochmaben,? Dumfries,? Scotland

parents: Matthew Geddes,? Mary Boyes

Thomas Geddes

Scotland, Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950

birth: 06 Jul 1841
christening: 13 Aug 1841 ,? LOCHMABEN,? DUMFRIES,? SCOTLAND
residence: 1841 Lochmaben,? Dumfries,? Scotland

parents: Matthew Geddes,? Mary Boyes

Martha Geddes

Scotland, Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950

christening: 04 Feb 1834 ,? LOCHMABEN,? DUMFRIES,? SCOTLAND

parents: Matthew Geddes,? Mary Boyes

David Geddes

Scotland, Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950

birth: 27 Sep 1849
christening: 27 Oct 1849 ,? LOCHMABEN,? DUMFRIES,? SCOTLAND
residence: 1849 Lochmaben,? Dumfries,? Scotland

parents: Matthew Geddes,? Mary Biges

Violet Geddes

Scotland, Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950

christening: 05 Oct 1845 ,? LOCHMABEN,? DUMFRIES,? SCOTLAND

parents: Matthew Geddes,? Mary Biges

Margaret Geddes

Scotland, Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950

birth: 09 Apr 1870 LOCHMABEN,?DUMFRIES,?SCOTLAND

parents: Matthew Geddes,? Jane Richardson

Annie Richardson Geddes

Scotland, Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950

birth: 30 Aug 1873 LOCHMABEN,?DUMFRIES,?SCOTLAND

parents: Matthew Geddes,? Jane Richardson

Archibald Geddes

Scotland, Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950

birth: 13 Aug 1868 LOCHMABEN,?DUMFRIES,?SCOTLAND

parents: Matthew Geddes,? Jane Richardson

Joseph Geddes

Scotland, Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950

birth: 06 Sep 1871 LOCHMABEN,?DUMFRIES,?SCOTLAND

parents: Matthew Geddes,? Jane Richardson

1871 Scotland Census about Matthew Geddes
Name: Matthew Geddes
Age: 59
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1812
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Jean Geddes
Gender: Male
Where born: St Mungo, dfriesshire
Registration number: 840/2
Registration district: Lochmaben Landward
Civil parish: Lochmaben
County: Dumfriesshire
Address: Mossside
Occupation: Ag Lab
ED: 3
Household schedule number: 49
Line: 19
Roll: CSSCT1871_184
Household Members:
Name Age
Matthew Geddes 59
Jean Geddes 38
William K Geddes 4
Archibald Geddes 2
Margaret Geddes 11 Mo
John Tait Geddes 4


1881 Scotland Census about Mathew Geddis
Name: Mathew Geddis
Age: 70
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1811
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Jean Geddis
Gender: Male
Where born: St Mungo, Dumfriesshire
Registration number: 840
Registration district: Lochmaben
Civil parish: Lochmaben
County: Dumfriesshire
Address: Mossside East
Occupation: A Labourer
ED: 6
Household schedule number: 55
Line: 10
Roll: cssct1881_325
Household Members:
Name Age
Mathew Geddis 70
Jean Geddis 47
Archibald Geddis 13
Margrert Geddis 11
Joseph Geddis 9
Annie Geddis 7


This appears to be the Matthew who married Jane Richardson, so does not appear to be your Matthew after all.
This appears to be the father of your Matthew. So either your Matthew has maybe died and this has been mistranscribed, or Mary died and Matthew snr remarried.
You most definitely need the certificates.

Thank you all very much for all that information. Some of it confirms some of my information, some I haven't heard of before and I'll have to investigate. Kay, you have separated the 2 Matthews. After that my Matthew (great, grandfather) disappears and the other one's records keep popping up. I can't find a marriage or death record for him. I've tried English, Scottish and Irish records but come up blank. He is the son of Matthew and Mary Boyes. The Jane Richardson is his second wife.

Agin, many thanks.

Hi everyone.

Thank you again for your help yesterday. I did some cross-checking and have now unravelled the 2 Matthews. My Matthew is my great, great, grandfather who married twice. (Mary then Jane)

My great, grandfather Matthew (1839) had 2 step-children and 1 of his own but I'm not trying to trace his marriage at the moment because I don' t know if he did.

What would really help me is a death record. He was alive for the 2 step- children's marriages (no deceased on the records) at 1874 but before 1890 when his 'wife' died. It must have happened in Scotland as the 2 marriages, the birth of his son and the death of his 'wife' all happened in Scotland but for the life of me I can't find it.

A fresh pair of eyes might pick up the obvious. Thank you.

Janet,
I lsearched on Scotlands People and there is a matching death.
Have you tried this one?

Geddes, Matthew died 1872 in Dumfries, Dumfries.
He was born within one year of 1839 but no matches with mother's name as Boyes.... often because the mother's name was never enterered onto the SP search criteria

Anne

1872,

Matthew Geddess ----Dumfries,a carter

son of Matthew Geddes a farmer.....age given as 32 and no wife is recorded,!!,,,married blank line.

1923 Lochmaben--- Matthew Geddes age 92 a Farmer,,,,, wife was Sarah Rogerson.
.
----------------------------------------------------unless Matthew died elsewhere?

1884, Lochmaben ---Mattthew Geddes age 72,wife was Jane Richardson,,

Hi Janet,
This may sound like a stupid question, but I am curious
How do you know that Matthew Geddes was still alive in 1874 when his step child/children married?

The birth father's name should be on the marriage cert, not the stepfather.

Any additional info re a stepfather is usually gleaned from the info given on the mother.


Edit
I would expect something like this:
Mother: Jane Geddes
Previously .........
Maiden surname ..........

Unless there is something else which is quite specific, ie "married to" Matthew Geddes, there is no way to tell if he was living or not.


Anne

OK. I'll try and answer these queries. Anne and Kay - When I started doing the family tree I thought the 1872 death was him. He died from TB away from home and I could understand that because that is tdhe same year my grandfather was born. However, I came across him and his family in the 1871 census and he was born in England and his children's names are different. So I had to rule him out.

The 1923 one is the 'not my relation' Matthew and the 1884 is my great, great grandfather. Thank you for those.

Anne - to answer your question; the records have both sets of parents' names and there is no (deceased) after their names although it is written beside the parent of the bride or groom whose parent is deceased.

The reason I'm sure they are step-children (whether legally or not) is that his wife is 14 years his senior and when the children were born Matthew was only 4 and 6 years old. The children were born in Ireland (I think) but everything else happened in Scotland. I can't find them using her maiden name and there is no indication she was previously married. That is why I was hoping for Matthew's death cert and I could work backwards from there. Complicated or what :-S

Oh, on his 'wife's' death cert it says "widow of Matthew Geddes". That was in 1890.

Janet,
trying to get to grips with this...

Matthew Geddes b circa 1811 was married twice
1st
to Mary Boyes with son Matthew born 1939

Mary Geddes Ms Boyes died in 1861

2nd
Matthew Geddes widower, married Jane Richardson in 1868.
Jane Richardson was about 20yrs younger than her husband, born circa
1833.
They had another 4 children together before Matthew died in 1884


Matthew b 1839
Appears to be unmarried in 1861 and lives with his parents ( mother is still living)
As he does not fit the profile of Matthew Geddes who married Sarah Rogerson later in 1861, and we cannot identify him after the 1861 census, who was Matthews son?
Where and when was the child born?

Anne

Anne.

You have everything spot on. G,grandfather Matthew disappears after the 1861 census - no marriage and no death certificates. His son was Alexander (Sandy) Geddes born in 1872 - no birth certificate. I pick him up in the 1881 census living with the eldest step-sister and her husband in Greenock.

There is a definite connection between Sandy with the person listed as his mother on his marriage certificate as he lived with her eldest child but the age ratio is 33:47. I know 47 is possible but I am beginning to wonder is it improbable and that Sandy is Matthews by another woman. That is why I am not listing his mother's maiden name as it might 'muddy the waters' and send everybody off on the wrong trail. I tried searching from that side and drew a blank also. Sandy is listed in the 1881 census as Margaret's nephew which could either mean the 'other woman' theory or they did not use the terms 'step-brother' or 'half brother' in those days. On the other hand could the fact that she had Sandy at 47 be the reason she went into ill-health and gave her son to her daughter to bring up???

Everyone's help is greatly appreciated as this section is proving hard to unravel. Once I picked Sandy up in the 1881 census I got everything after that.

Janet,
Am I looking at the right census, family called Whiteside of Dempster Street, Greenock?

If so, both returns state that Alexander Geddes was born in Ireland, and both state that he was a nephew to the head of household..

Do you have any positive info that would connect this Alexander to Matthew Geddes b 1839 in Lochmaben, Dumfriesshire.