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Born in the 1880's. She game to England from Dublin at the age of 18. She met and married my grandfather John. He was a widower. Originally they lived in westhoughton then castle hill Wigan. She had two children on being my father. Joseph. He did have a cousin and an uncle remaining in Dublin. One a priest the other police officer. Don,,t know which way round. I have been over to Dublin several times to no avail. Please some one must k ow of the family. After all chivers. Is an unusual name

Have you taken a look at the 1901 and 1911 census of Ireland for possible Chives family connections ? Both are free.

Hello Joan, and welcome to the boards.

What was your grandfather John's surname? When and where did they marry?
When and where did they die?

This info will give us something to work back from.

(I'm not seeing a birth record in Ireland for an Elizabeth Chives)

Unfortunately only one mans name on this marriage on Ancestry and if it was your Elizabeth she would only have been 14 if she was born 1880.



England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1915
about Elizabeth Chives
Name: Elizabeth Chives
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1894
Registration district: Winchester
Inferred County: Hampshire
Volume Number: 2c
Page Number: 217



Elizabeth Chives Oct-Nov-Dec 1894 Winchester Hampshire

Agnes Knight Oct-Nov-Dec 1894 Winchester Hampshire

Alfred William Windebank Oct-Nov-Dec 1894 Winchester Hampshire

Not seeing a marriage for Elizabeth Chives to John either

Think this is the missing groom from above. ( 217 instead of 247)

Marriages Dec 1894 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chives Elizabeth Winchester 2c 247
Palmer William Alexander Winchester 2c 247

Nothing coming up for Chives on the 1901 or 1911 Irish, nor on the http://www.irishgenealogy.ie/index.html

what does it say on her marriage cert? or birth certs?

Hello Joan,

Actually, Chives isn't that much of an unusual name - there are 178 matches in trees on this site. It may be worthwhile putting the names you are researching into the Search Trees box to see if anyone else has them in their tree.

If you find a connection, you can contact the tree owner.





ps. I'll send Joan one of my messages on how to return :-D

Sorry everyone but it should have read Elizabeth chivers. :-S

pm from Joan:

Elizabeth married John whittle at st. Benedict,s r/c hindley Wigan. This must have been late 1880's. They had two children Elizabeth and my father Joseph . Joseph was born 1990 and died 1959 in wythenshaw hospital. Elizabeth died in billinge hospital. Hope this helps

Hello Joan, two things:

1 - Could you check Joseph's birth year?

2 - You've marked this thread as answered so people may not realise you still need help. Go to your very first post at the top of the thread and there is a pink button that says "mark this as unanswered" - click on that. Then people will start looking to see what you need.

Could this be Joseph's death (to help us get our bearings)

England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2006
Name: Joseph Whittle
Birth Date: abt 1899
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1959
Age at Death: 60
Registration district: Ashton
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 10b
Page: 99

This 1911 looks likely:

WHITTLE, John Head Married M 56 1855 Colliery Dataller - Underground Lancashire Hindley
WHITTLE, Eliza Wife Married14 years F 38 1873 Dublin Ireland
WHITTLE, Reuben Son Single M 21 1890 Colliery Drawer Haulier Lancashire Hindley
WHITTLE, Abraham Son Single M 17 1894 Colliery Drawer Haulier Lancashire Hindley
WHITTLE, Elizabeth Daughter Single F 13 1898 School Lancashire Hindley
WHITTLE, Joseph Son Single M 11 1900 School Lancashire Hindley

RG number: RG14 Piece: 23030 Reference: RG14PN23030 RG78PN1346 RD458 SD4 ED15 SN94
Registration District: Wigan
Sub District: Hindley
Enumeration District: 15
Parish: Hindley

Address: 153 Castle Hill Hindley County: Lancashire

** The image says Reuben and Abraham were by former marriage.

Eliza had only had the two children (Elizabeth and Joseph)

Elizabeth's age varies dramatically in the 1901!

WHITTLE, John Head Married M 47 1854 Coal Hewer Hindley, Lancashire
WHITTLE, Elizabeth Wife Married F 35 1866 Ireland Dublin
WHITTLE, Thomas Son Single M 15 1886 No Occupation Hindley, Lancashire
WHITTLE, Reuben Son Single M 10 1891 Hindley, Lancashire
WHITTLE, Abram Son Single M 7 1894 Hindley, Lancashire
WHITTLE, Elizabeth Daughter F 3 1898 Hindley, Lancashire
WHITTLE, Joseph Son M 0 (9 MOS) 1901 Hindley, Lancashire

Piece: 3561 Folio: 148 Page: 32
Registration District: Wigan
Civil Parish: Hindley

Address: 153, Castle Hill Road, Hindley County: Lancashire

(It's my guess that she added a few years onto her age on this one to minimise the age difference between her and John).

I'm not seeing a marriage for an Elizabeth Chivers in that timescale, can a fresh pair of eyes see anything?

Joan, you said Elizabeth died in Billinge Hospital - is that the mother or the daughter? If it's Elizabeth from Dublin could you tell us when? We can check her age on the death record.

She seems to be older than you thought.

This looks like Joseph's birth.

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1900

WHITTLE Joseph Hindley Wigan & Leigh HNDL/140/121


The only Elizabeth Whittle birth registered in Hindley in 1898 has the mother's maiden name as Liptrot - so not ours.


I may be muddying the waters but.....

Baptisms: 3 Jun 1885 All Saints, Hindley, Lancashire, England
Thomas Whittle - Child of John Whittle & Alice
Born: 10 May 1885
Abode: Marsh Brook
Occupation: Collier
Baptised by: W.Geary Knocker, Vicar
Register: Baptisms 1880 - 1886, Page 157, Entry 1249
Source: LDS Film 93748



Baptisms: 2 Aug 1891 All Saints, Hindley, Lancashire, England
Reuben Whittle - Child of John Whittle & Alice
Born: 27 May 1891
Abode: Westhoughton
Occupation: Collier
Baptised by: C.J.Buckmaster Vicar
Register: Baptisms 1886 - 1893, Page 150, Entry 1200
Source: LDS Film 93748


Baptisms: 4 Apr 1894 All Saints, Hindley, Lancashire, England
Abraham Whittle - Child of John Whittle & Alice
Born: 18 Feb 1894
Abode: Castle Hill
Occupation: Collier
Baptised by: Fredk. H.J. Barham, Curate
Register: Baptisms 1893 - 1901, Page 49, Entry 389
Source: LDS Film 93748



Reuben's marriage - father deceased. Ince is just down the road from Hindley.


Marriage: 2 Feb 1924 St Mary, Ince, Lancashire, England
Reuben Whittle - 30 Colliery Surface Hand Bachelor of 354 Warrington Rd.
Clara Atherton - 24 Spinster of 547 Warrington Rd.
Groom's Father: John Whittle Whittle, deceased, Collier
Bride's Father: George Atherton, Collier
Witness: Frederick Atherton; Esther Jane Gregory
Married by Banns by: S. Bryson Vicar
Register: Marriages 1915 - 1927, Page 189, Entry 378
Source: Original register at Wigan Archives



Can't find a death for Alice Whittle though :-S

I was wondering about this for Alice's death:

England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1915
Name: Alice Whittle
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1896
Age at Death: 44
Registration district: Bolton
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8c
Page: 279

Bolton covers Westhoughton which is where Joan said John and Elizabeth had lived.

Something doesn't add up here. Why can't we find a Chivers/Whittle marriage?

I go past St. Benedicts several times a week and have a friend who volunteers at Wigan History shop. I'll have a word and see if she can find the marriage next time she goes in.

Cx

Cynthia, I'm thinking that Elizabeth might possibly have been married before and was perhaps a widow when she married John Whittle?

She was quite a bit older than Joan originally indicated so wasn't exactly a child bride.

Of course they may not have actually married.

I would suggest Joan gets one of the children's birth certificates to see what it says about former names.

Where did Joan get the surname Chivers from?