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Hi
Please can anyone help with a marriage at st peters burnley in 1842, round about july august. The banns were read around the 10th july 1842. Its between john walsh and margaret smith. Margarets dad was andrew smith. But not sure if i have got john walsh's father down as definately william whitaker. One of the family has the certificate, but not me. I have a baptism of who i am certain is john walsh in 1820 in altham, mum mary hargreaves, da d william whitaker. Just not certain william whitaker appears on the marriage certificate of john to margaret? Could anyone possibly check. ? Can only get the banns for St peters on line for that year.
thanks
shirley

Marriages Sep 1842 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BRADSHAW Elizabeth Burnley 21 82
GRAY James Burnley 21 82
LUCAS Edward Burnley 21 82
RADCLIFFE Benjamin Burnley 21 82
REDSHAW Elizabeth Burnley 21 82
SMITH Margaret Burnley 21 82 <<<<<<<<<<<<<
TOMLINSON Isabella Burnley 21 82
WALSH John Burnley 21 82 <<<<<<<<<<<<<

Just out of curiosiry, if his mother is Hargreaves and his father is Whitaker, then why is John's name Walsh?

yes, thats the one, probably married, late july ish. Just need to know if father for john walsh is down as william whitaker or not? Will it say anywhere?
hopefully
shirley

1841 for reference


HARGREAVES, Edmund M 65 1776 Lancashire VIEW
HARGREAVES, Mary F 70 1771 Lancashire VIEW
HARGREAVES, Edmund M 40 1801 Lancashire VIEW
HARGREAVES, Thomas M 20 1821 Lancashire VIEW
WALSH, Mary F 40 1801 Lancashire VIEW
WALSH, John M 20 1821 Lancashire VIEW
WALSH, Ann F 7 1834 Lancashire VIEW
MACANTASH, Bellow F 2 1839 Lancashire VIEW
Piece: 506
Book/Folio: 7/6
Page: 7
Registration District: Burnley Union
Civil Parish: Whalley
Municipal Borough:
Address: Lane Side, Whalley, Altham
County: Lancashire




Regards Vera

I know vera, its a strange one. ! She starts out as mary hargreaves, has what looks like a child out of wedlock with william whitaker, in 1820, john hargreaves/whitaker Then on the 1841 she calls herself walsh. then marries john macintosh in 1837 and has this isabella . (bellow) John macintosh disapears from sight, who knows where he went? And then on the 1841 she is back to calling herself walsh again. But i am forgetting what she is calling herself on the 1851, think walsh? Not certain. But she dies as a mary macintosh in 1858. Strange woman !! Unless somewhere we have something wrong. But havent figured out what yet, as with burials etc, it all fits in. and certificates etc too. I am now going through the walsh folk in altham for round about 1820-1840 period, to see if i can spot a reason for the walsh surname coming in by 1841, and john being called walsh also?? because i have spotted no marriage. She married john macintosh as a walsh though, so presume from that she was walsh from somewhere between 1820 and 1837/38?? :-D

Crikey Shirley these ancestors never make things easy....will read that reply a few times :-))
Regards Vera

thanks vera, hard to get your head round eh? Thats why im double checking to see if john walsh put dad down as william whitaker on his marriage to margaret smith? Think he did, but im not the one with the certificate. He married in burnley st peters, but moved straihgt back to altham near his mum for birth of first child elizabeth around 1843, as she was baptised in altham. Probably worked at altham pit. But he ended up being lkilled in cliviger pit, so hard to decide, would it have been worse if he had stayed at altham and maybe got killed in that pit disaster, or burnley and got killed there. No chance for him . !
I often wonder how he met margaret as she lived in burnley i think . I havent spotted her on the 1841 census yet. He rdad was andrew , a cordwainer or a shoe maker. Think her mum was elizabeth. But margaret was born in glasgow scotland. Around 1824. :-)

Maybe it would help if i had the family on the 1851. They are still in altham from what i remember. Mary would probably be a walsh and she would have isabella macintosh living with her. I think ann is another illegitmate child of mary, born in 1834.? Ann walsh would be seventeen, and im just wondering if she is down as granddaughter of mary hargreaves, or daughter of mary walsh? I have mislaid my census details which i had from years ago. John walsh was married and living in altham somewhere too, dont think he was living with his mum, but somewhere in altham i think. Thomas hargreaves looks like the son of edmund and mary nee ?? but i found a baptism in altham where they had got dad down as edward. Its all very difficult

1851
Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation
Disability Where born Image
HARGRAVES, Mary Head Widow F 80 1771 House Keeper
Livesey, Lancashire VIEW
MCINTOSH, Mary Servant Unmarried F 56 1795 Servant
Livesey, Lancashire VIEW
HARGRAVES, Edmund Son Unmarried M 51 1800 Collier
Altham, Lancashire VIEW
WALSH, Ann Grand Daughter Unmarried F 16 1835 Factory Girl
Livesey, Lancashire VIEW
MCINTOSH, Isabella Grand Daughter Unmarried F 12 1839 At Home
Altham, Lancashire VIEW
Piece: 2253
Folio: 49
Page: 5
Registration District: Burnley
Civil Parish: Altham
Municipal Borough:
Address: Lane Side, Altham
County: Lancashire


Just to be awkward she is a McIntosh


Regards Vera

1851 England Census
Name: Isabella McIntosh
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Edmund Hargreaves
Gender: F (Female)
Where born: Altham, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Altham
Ecclesiastical parish: Altham
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: Burnley
Sub-registration district: Padiham
ED, institution, or vessel: 2c
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 16
Piece: 2253
Folio: 49
Page Number: 5
Household Members: Name Age
Mary Hargreaves 80 <<<Widow, housekeeper
Mary McIntosh 56 <<Servant
Edmund Hargreaves 51
Ann Halsh 16 <<Grandaughter
Isabella McIntosh 12

The transcription gives Edmund Hargreaves as the father of Isab* but I think it means that Edmund is the son of Mary Hargreaves (head)

Also

Francis McIntosh Head 31 abt 1820 M Altham, Lancashire,
Ellen McIntosh Wife 30 abt 1821 F Walton, Lancashire,
Isabella McIntosh Daughter 9 abt 1842 F Altham, Lancashire,
Thomas McIntosh Son 7 abt 1844 M Altham, Lancashire,
Martha McIntosh Daughter 5 abt 1846 F Burnley, Lancashire,
Samuel McIntosh Son 3 abt 1848 M Burnley, Lancashire,
Rachell McIntosh Daughter 23 abt 1828 F Altham,


You need to buy birth and marriage certs to check out the details for sure

Shirley
The enumerator certainly misheard Isabella's name on the 1841 love it... Bellow Macantash !!!


Regards Vera

And then Isabella in 1861


1861 England Census
Name: Isabella Macintosh
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Relation: Sister
Gender: Female
Where born: Altham, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Altham
Ecclesiastical parish: St James
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England


Registration district: Burnley
Sub-registration district: Padiham
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 13
Piece: 3076
Folio: 91
Page Number: 4
Household Members: Name Age
Ann Walsh 27
Mary Walsh 1
Isabella Macintosh 22
Thomas S Macintosh 2


The 1871 Census
Name: Isabella Law
Age: 32
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: James Law
Gender: Female
Where born: Altham, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Rishton
Ecclesiastical parish: St Bartholomew
Town: Rishton
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Blackburn
Sub-registration district: Harwood
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Household schedule number: 3
Piece: 4169
Folio: 92
Page Number: 1
Household Members: Name Age
James Law 31
Isabella Law 32
Thos Law Madortosh 12 son <<<
Mary E Law 5
Margaret A Law 2


Another certificate needed!


Marriages Dec 1865
--------------------------------------------
Law James Burnley 8e 233
Macintosh Isabella Burnley 8e 233

1861
WALSH, Ann Head Unmarried F 27 1834 Cotton Rover
Altham, Lancashire VIEW
WALSH, Mary Daughter F 1 1860
Altham, Lancashire VIEW
MACINTOSH, Isabella Sister Unmarried F 22 1839 Cotton Power Loom Weaver
Altham, Lancashire VIEW
MACINTOSH, Thomas S Nephew M 2 1859 Scholar
Altham, Lancashire VIEW
Piece: 3076
Folio: 91
Page: 4
Registration District: Burnley
Civil Parish: Altham
Municipal Borough:
Address: 9, Altham Hall Cottages, Altham
County: Lancashire

Regards Vera

Hi ginny
What does that top bit mean on your post, the fathers name being edmund hargreaves? The isabella mcintosh's born 1838 is daughter of mary walsh/macintosh, the woman in question, and john macintosh , they married in 1837 in altham. So dont understand the top part of your post whewre it says father edmund hargreaves? Where is this info from? Marys dads name we think is edmund hargreaves, but as i can find no baptism for this i have not presumed for certain. Yes, i do need to get ann walsh's marriage certificate to moses howarth/haworth to check ann's dads name for certain. good plan. Francis macintosh is brother of or nephew of john macintosh, there are tow francis's. well there are three if you count the original one, john macintosh's dad. John macintosh was born in canonbie to francis and sarah graham, then married isabella readfearn first before mary walsh/haregreaves. Then he just disappeared !! :-(

Groom's Name: James Law
Groom's Birth Date: 1840
Groom's Birthplace:
Groom's Age: 25
Bride's Name: Isabella Macintosh
Bride's Birth Date: 1838
Bride's Birthplace:
Bride's Age: 27
Marriage Date: 29 Oct 1865
Marriage Place: Altham, Lancashire, England
Groom's Father's Name: James Law
Groom's Mother's Name:
Bride's Father's Name: John Macintosh
Bride's Mother's Name:
Groom's Race:
Groom's Marital Status: Single
Groom's Previous Wife's Name:
Bride's Race:
Bride's Marital Status: Single
Bride's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M39220-7
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1278856
Reference Number:

Marriage: 29 Oct 1865 St James, Altham, Lancashire, England
James Law - 25 Weaver Bachelor of Padiham
Isabella Macintosh - (X), 27 Weaver Spinster of Altham
Groom's Father: James Law, Labourer
Bride's Father: John Macintosh, Collier
Witness: Moses Haworth; Margaret Rushton, (X)
Married by Registrars Certificate by: Wm Sharp
Register: Marriages 1863 - 1886, Page 19, Entry 37
Source: LDS Film 1278856

Yes, thanks, got all the law stuff. Its all still complicated with isabella having thomas before marriage. then marrying james law.
Just to be pedantic, i have just noticed that it does not say that mary walsh/macintosh is daughter of mary hargreaves ever? So, maybe she is daughter in law, or daughter of edmund senior, but not mary? Who knows. ? But i have not found yet, this mary walsh macintosh to have married a hargreaves, as edmund and mary seemed to have a son roger also, who i think married an elizabeth. It seems edmund junior never married because perhaps he was deaf and dumb. ? So until i know for sure, i will still presume that mary born 1796 ish is daughter of mary and edmund?
think i will get ann's marriage certificate to see if there is a dads name mentioned at all.
thanks all :-D

Shirley,
Please let us know, when you get the MC about fathers name. Thanks.

Regards Vera

Ive added to that census that you questioned


This looks like Edmund


England & Wales Christening Records, 1530-1906
Name: Edmund Hargreaves
Gender: Male
Birth Date: abt 1800
Christening Date: 24 Jun 1800
Christening Place: Altham, Lancashire, England
Father's Name: Edmund Hargreaves
Mother's name: Mary

Thanks for all your help. Not sure now wether to get the marriage certificate of ann, just noticed on the parish clerks that it says fathers name of ann as mary walsh, walsh indeed. !!! She had already passed away , and was called macintosh on her death. grrr , foiled again!!!! Would they be allowed to do that.? and on the official certificate from 1864, would it still have mary, her mother down as the father like on the church certificate? Well i still may get it , just to see. ! Shes a hard woman to track !!! :-|