Find Ancestors

well, things are looking even better, Have just found a mary welsh in october 1797 being baptised, illegitimate daughter of mary welsh, in altham, saying she was born on 17 august 1797. So we could have something. !!! It would explain such a lot !!! No sign of any [parents names for mary welsh and edward/edmund, but we cant have everything !!! im happy that it may be the expalanation. Thankyou so much to everyone who helped. !!! and especially gins who spotted that marriage. !! im not presuming its a definate, that would be silly..... but....... :-D

thanks gins and safc. Gins, we still have edmund senior alive on the 1841, but that does not make any difference. it wont spoil the new solution. !!! i will take a look now at that altham marriage. well spotted, dont know why i didnt see that myself. Well done. !! so mary has always been a welsh/walsh maybe? thats why she just had john and then ann while still being unmarried, and her first marriage was to john macintosh . It seems that ever generation on that line has had a couple of children out of wedlock then married someone else. HMPPHH ha ha

????

Groom's Name: Moses Haworth
Groom's Birth Date: 1834
Groom's Birthplace:
Groom's Age: 30
Bride's Name: Ann Walsh
Bride's Birth Date: 1835
Bride's Birthplace:
Bride's Age: 29
Marriage Date: 12 Mar 1864
Marriage Place: Altham, Lancashire, England
Groom's Father's Name: Thomas Haworth
Groom's Mother's Name:
Bride's Father's Name:
Bride's Mother's Name: Mary Walsh
Groom's Race:
Groom's Marital Status: Single
Groom's Previous Wife's Name:
Bride's Race:
Bride's Marital Status: Single
Bride's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M39220-7
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1278856
Reference Number:

Marriage: 12 Mar 1864 St James, Altham, Lancashire, England
Moses Haworth - 30 Collier Bachelor of Altham
Ann Walsh - (X), 29 Rover Spinster of Altham
Groom's Father: Thomas Haworth, Collier
Bride's Father: Mary Walsh, Hand Loom Weaver
Witness: Charlotte Haworth; Thomas Macintosh
Married by Banns by: Wm Sharp
Register: Marriages 1863 - 1886, Page 8, Entry 16

OOOh , you may have something there gins. Well done you. !!! that could answer it all. Mary welsh, walsh, could have given birth to mary pre marriage to edmund, so all the time i have been casting aspersions at mary walsh, and it was her mother that was the problem. You could be right.,, thatnks for that.. Maybe i could work on that. It would expalin the walsh name.welsh name i guess. or maybe edmund is not even her father , marys i mean. Maybe mary macintosh/walsh is a child out of wedlock of mary welsh/walsh and then she married edmund. mmmm :-D

OOOh , you may have something there gins. Well done you. !!! that could answer it all. Mary welsh, walsh, could have given birth to mary pre marriage to edmund, so all the time i have been casting aspersions at mary walsh, and it was her mother that was the problem. You could be right.,, thatnks for that.. Maybe i could work on that. It would expalin the walsh name.welsh name i guess. or maybe edmund is not even her father , marys i mean. Maybe mary macintosh/walsh is a child out of wedlock of mary welsh/walsh and then she married edmund. mmmm :-D

England & Wales Christening Records, 1530-1906
Name: Anne
Gender: Female
Birth Date: abt 1834
Christening Date: 8 Jun 1834
Christening Place: Altham, Lancashire, England
Mother's name: Mary Welsh

thanks everyone for all your input. !! im going to have something to eat now, been staring at screen for hours already, so addictive this game. ! Yes, will let you know. But i have a feeling that for the fathers name of ann , there will be a gap. And as she was born in 1834, cant get the birth certificate. Have found who i thought may be her in altham as ann welsh, mother mary welsh. But thats no help either , as there is no father listed. Least i have a suggested father for my john. William whitaker ! I noticed that the same day and the next wedding to a mary ahrgreaves marrying a george rushton is a william whitaker marrying someone. Cant remember who now, in altham, but that would be funny , think in 1823. If her previous childs father and her were getting married at the same time. ?
but not sure if that mary ahrgreaves was her anyway. Just a coincidence perhaps?

thanks everyone for all your input. !! im going to have something to eat now, been staring at screen for hours already, so addictive this game. ! Yes, will let you know. But i have a feeling that for the fathers name of ann , there will be a gap. And as she was born in 1834, cant get the birth certificate. Have found who i thought may be her in altham as ann welsh, mother mary welsh. But thats no help either , as there is no father listed. Least i have a suggested father for my john. William whitaker ! I noticed that the same day and the next wedding to a mary ahrgreaves marrying a george rushton is a william whitaker marrying someone. Cant remember who now, in altham, but that would be funny , think in 1823. If her previous childs father and her were getting married at the same time. ?
but not sure if that mary ahrgreaves was her anyway. Just a coincidence perhaps?

Now I could be just trying to make this fit as Edmunds parents marriage?



England & Wales Marriages, 1538-1940
Name: Edward Hargreaves
Gender: Male
Spouse's Name: Mary Welsh
Marriage Date: 9 Apr 1798
Marriage Place: Altham, Lancashire, England


Could it be Edmund and Walsh?????


England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1915
Name: Edmund Hargreaves
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1838
Registration district: Burnley
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 21
Page: 110 (

Thanks for all your help. Not sure now wether to get the marriage certificate of ann, just noticed on the parish clerks that it says fathers name of ann as mary walsh, walsh indeed. !!! She had already passed away , and was called macintosh on her death. grrr , foiled again!!!! Would they be allowed to do that.? and on the official certificate from 1864, would it still have mary, her mother down as the father like on the church certificate? Well i still may get it , just to see. ! Shes a hard woman to track !!! :-|

Thanks for all your help. Not sure now wether to get the marriage certificate of ann, just noticed on the parish clerks that it says fathers name of ann as mary walsh, walsh indeed. !!! She had already passed away , and was called macintosh on her death. grrr , foiled again!!!! Would they be allowed to do that.? and on the official certificate from 1864, would it still have mary, her mother down as the father like on the church certificate? Well i still may get it , just to see. ! Shes a hard woman to track !!! :-|

Ive added to that census that you questioned


This looks like Edmund


England & Wales Christening Records, 1530-1906
Name: Edmund Hargreaves
Gender: Male
Birth Date: abt 1800
Christening Date: 24 Jun 1800
Christening Place: Altham, Lancashire, England
Father's Name: Edmund Hargreaves
Mother's name: Mary

Shirley,
Please let us know, when you get the MC about fathers name. Thanks.

Regards Vera

Yes, thanks, got all the law stuff. Its all still complicated with isabella having thomas before marriage. then marrying james law.
Just to be pedantic, i have just noticed that it does not say that mary walsh/macintosh is daughter of mary hargreaves ever? So, maybe she is daughter in law, or daughter of edmund senior, but not mary? Who knows. ? But i have not found yet, this mary walsh macintosh to have married a hargreaves, as edmund and mary seemed to have a son roger also, who i think married an elizabeth. It seems edmund junior never married because perhaps he was deaf and dumb. ? So until i know for sure, i will still presume that mary born 1796 ish is daughter of mary and edmund?
think i will get ann's marriage certificate to see if there is a dads name mentioned at all.
thanks all :-D

Groom's Name: James Law
Groom's Birth Date: 1840
Groom's Birthplace:
Groom's Age: 25
Bride's Name: Isabella Macintosh
Bride's Birth Date: 1838
Bride's Birthplace:
Bride's Age: 27
Marriage Date: 29 Oct 1865
Marriage Place: Altham, Lancashire, England
Groom's Father's Name: James Law
Groom's Mother's Name:
Bride's Father's Name: John Macintosh
Bride's Mother's Name:
Groom's Race:
Groom's Marital Status: Single
Groom's Previous Wife's Name:
Bride's Race:
Bride's Marital Status: Single
Bride's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M39220-7
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1278856
Reference Number:

Marriage: 29 Oct 1865 St James, Altham, Lancashire, England
James Law - 25 Weaver Bachelor of Padiham
Isabella Macintosh - (X), 27 Weaver Spinster of Altham
Groom's Father: James Law, Labourer
Bride's Father: John Macintosh, Collier
Witness: Moses Haworth; Margaret Rushton, (X)
Married by Registrars Certificate by: Wm Sharp
Register: Marriages 1863 - 1886, Page 19, Entry 37
Source: LDS Film 1278856

Hi ginny
What does that top bit mean on your post, the fathers name being edmund hargreaves? The isabella mcintosh's born 1838 is daughter of mary walsh/macintosh, the woman in question, and john macintosh , they married in 1837 in altham. So dont understand the top part of your post whewre it says father edmund hargreaves? Where is this info from? Marys dads name we think is edmund hargreaves, but as i can find no baptism for this i have not presumed for certain. Yes, i do need to get ann walsh's marriage certificate to moses howarth/haworth to check ann's dads name for certain. good plan. Francis macintosh is brother of or nephew of john macintosh, there are tow francis's. well there are three if you count the original one, john macintosh's dad. John macintosh was born in canonbie to francis and sarah graham, then married isabella readfearn first before mary walsh/haregreaves. Then he just disappeared !! :-(

1861
WALSH, Ann Head Unmarried F 27 1834 Cotton Rover
Altham, Lancashire VIEW
WALSH, Mary Daughter F 1 1860
Altham, Lancashire VIEW
MACINTOSH, Isabella Sister Unmarried F 22 1839 Cotton Power Loom Weaver
Altham, Lancashire VIEW
MACINTOSH, Thomas S Nephew M 2 1859 Scholar
Altham, Lancashire VIEW
Piece: 3076
Folio: 91
Page: 4
Registration District: Burnley
Civil Parish: Altham
Municipal Borough:
Address: 9, Altham Hall Cottages, Altham
County: Lancashire

Regards Vera

And then Isabella in 1861


1861 England Census
Name: Isabella Macintosh
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Relation: Sister
Gender: Female
Where born: Altham, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Altham
Ecclesiastical parish: St James
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England


Registration district: Burnley
Sub-registration district: Padiham
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 13
Piece: 3076
Folio: 91
Page Number: 4
Household Members: Name Age
Ann Walsh 27
Mary Walsh 1
Isabella Macintosh 22
Thomas S Macintosh 2


The 1871 Census
Name: Isabella Law
Age: 32
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: James Law
Gender: Female
Where born: Altham, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Rishton
Ecclesiastical parish: St Bartholomew
Town: Rishton
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Blackburn
Sub-registration district: Harwood
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Household schedule number: 3
Piece: 4169
Folio: 92
Page Number: 1
Household Members: Name Age
James Law 31
Isabella Law 32
Thos Law Madortosh 12 son <<<
Mary E Law 5
Margaret A Law 2


Another certificate needed!


Marriages Dec 1865
--------------------------------------------
Law James Burnley 8e 233
Macintosh Isabella Burnley 8e 233

Shirley
The enumerator certainly misheard Isabella's name on the 1841 love it... Bellow Macantash !!!


Regards Vera

1851 England Census
Name: Isabella McIntosh
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Edmund Hargreaves
Gender: F (Female)
Where born: Altham, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Altham
Ecclesiastical parish: Altham
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: Burnley
Sub-registration district: Padiham
ED, institution, or vessel: 2c
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 16
Piece: 2253
Folio: 49
Page Number: 5
Household Members: Name Age
Mary Hargreaves 80 <<<Widow, housekeeper
Mary McIntosh 56 <<Servant
Edmund Hargreaves 51
Ann Halsh 16 <<Grandaughter
Isabella McIntosh 12

The transcription gives Edmund Hargreaves as the father of Isab* but I think it means that Edmund is the son of Mary Hargreaves (head)

Also

Francis McIntosh Head 31 abt 1820 M Altham, Lancashire,
Ellen McIntosh Wife 30 abt 1821 F Walton, Lancashire,
Isabella McIntosh Daughter 9 abt 1842 F Altham, Lancashire,
Thomas McIntosh Son 7 abt 1844 M Altham, Lancashire,
Martha McIntosh Daughter 5 abt 1846 F Burnley, Lancashire,
Samuel McIntosh Son 3 abt 1848 M Burnley, Lancashire,
Rachell McIntosh Daughter 23 abt 1828 F Altham,


You need to buy birth and marriage certs to check out the details for sure