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Thanks Mary. Could possibly just be something as simple as Chinese Naval Station.

It was a Naval Station and Sanatorium/British Naval China Station also known as Port Edward.
Or maybe it just stands for China Station.

Maryb.

Hi mgnv

Received the Entry in the Marine Register cert today but afraid it doesn't really give much more information.

It gives Name of ship, Official number, Date of death, Place of death, Name of deceased, Sex, Age, rank or occupation, Nationality, Last place of abode, cause of death and Whether passenger or crew.

His Nationality is British, which suggests that even if he was born in Canada, his father was British.

He was a passenger on the ship and last abode was Wei Hai Wei, C N Station.
I have googled Wei Hai Wei and have found information on that but have no idea what C N Station would be.

This is the David in the RN and I have just sent for the certificate. I have no idea what it will contain but I will certainly let you know when I receive it.

Have downloaded his service record from NA which is a fascinating insight into which ships he served on and the places he went to.

I've gotten a bit confused - I presume this David's the one in the RN.

I've never seen an English marine d.cert. There are links to examples of Scottish marine d.certs, both RN & civilian, available at the foot of the page here:
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/Content/Help/index.aspx?r=554&404

If you do decide to buy his d.cert, I'ld appreciate learning what info it contains - is it the same as the Scottish example?

One might also consider getting his RN service record.

Yes, you can order that from GRO.
Not sure what it will give, but at least you'll have it, lol.

Chris :)

Yes Chris, that's it. Doesn't give much information though.
Just had a thought, do you think there might be more on the actual certificate if I ordered it?
How stupid I feel saying I couldn't find a death certificate. It was there all the time, just for some unknown reason I did not connect this with a certificate I could order. I take it I can order this?

Doh!!

No Chris, it's an index entry just like you see from the England & Wales death index - it tells you where to locate the actual d.cert. You have to pay to see the actual d,cert.

Overseas BMD (Find My Past)

Death
Name: HATELIE, David
Vessel : Ceylon
Country: At sea
Year: 1905
Page: 5
Age at death: 41
Record source: GRO Marine Death Indices (1903 to 1965)

(is this the Death Cert.)

Chris :)

Thanks Roy, I would be interested in getting records for DWF in the Border Regiment. I understand from googling that the 3rd battalion was a volunteer force.

Possible reason for him serving with the border regiment,

Officers where and still are often posted to other regiments one reason is that the military always believed and still do that familiarity breads discontent which has a detrimental affect on disciplines.

Roy

Hi Roy, nice to hear from you.

David Hatelie b Montreal is the Admiralty, 1st March, 1890. record.

His father, David is the Lt Colonel. This is the man I can find no definite records on.
I thought maybe the David I found, born Scotland, may be him. He had been in the military for 21 years and had spent a few years in Canada. His father appears to have been an ag lab.

The last 2 records are, I think, for Montreal David's son. He was David William Fowler Hatelie. Fowler was his mother's surname.

I have no idea why he would be in the Border Reg. when he was from Devon.


Sorry, must away to bed now but will check back tomorrow.

Liz

For your David Hatelie born Montreal having served for 21 year and then to rejoined and rise to the rank of Lieutenant Colonel would be more than highly unlikely but not impossible

If you have details that he was the son of an ag lab then it's also unlikely that the marriage certificate in 1885, which has his father as David Hatelie, a Lieutenant Colonel is for the same man


In relation to your possible David Hatelie Lieutenant Colonel

Admiralty, 1st March, 1890.
THE undermentioned Assistant-Engineers have
this day been promoted to the rank of Engineer
in Her Majesty's Fleet, viz. :—
George Thomas Kerswell.
Charles Hedley Collins.
Ernest William Rodet.
George Gerald Knight.
Sidney Alexander Houghton.
David Hatelie.
Henry Thomas Knapman.
William Fryer Hinchcliff.
Marrack Seunett.


from http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/26029/pages/1200/page.pdf

Lieutenants :—
Herbert P. 0. Sleigh.
William J. H. Bilderbeck.
Second Lieutenant David W. F. Hatelie

from http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/28166/pages/5901/page.pdf

3rd Battalion, The Border Regiment, Second
Lieutenant David W". F. Hatelie resigns his
Commission. Dated 22nd September, 1909

from http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/28290/pages/7048/page.pdf

related thread?

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/records_office/thread/1112970?d=desc

Roy

This looks to be the matchibg record for Margee's post

Births Mar 1862 (>99%)
HATELIE George David Marylebone 1a 465

I think the marriage for the David Senior we found by Choccy is correct, going by Matilda's birthplace.. George David Hatelie must be their son surely, with such an unusual name and his father's occupation.

It is interesting that George was born 1862, given that his father was serving in Canada 1861-64. This suggests he went to Canada alone. Might it be speculating too far that he met your David's mother while there, if we run with the idea that he is the right David?

The other possibility is that he is your David and was never born in Canada in the first place!

It would be interesting to find them 1871.

1851 England Census

Name: Matilda Kingsbury
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Jesse Kingsbury
Mother's Name: Jane Kingsbury
Gender: F (Female)
Where born: East Peckham, Kent, England

Civil parish: East Peckham
Ecclesiastical parish: Trinity
County/Island: Kent
Registration district: Malling
Sub-registration district: Aylesford

Jesse Kingsbury 44
Jane Kingsbury 40
William Kingsbury 17
Mary Kingsbury 15
Joseph Kingsbury 14
Matilda Kingsbury 11
Alfred Kingsbury 8
Jasse Humphrey 4
Elizabeth Humphrey 2
Issacha Humphrey 9 Mo
John Humphrey 21


Births Jun 1839 (>99%)
Kingsbury Matilda Malling 5 306

Oddly, she seems to be working as a servant in 1861 (after the marriage), unless there is another similar person around!

Jan

Thanks, once again, for your ideas.

I have just looked at my ggrandfather's marriage certificate again and he is an ass engineer RN (he rose to the rank of Engineer Commander before dying at sea in 1904). His father is David, Lieutenant Colonel. No abbreviations or mention of him being retired.

I have not been able to find a birth or death certificate for David jnr, and probably never will. I would have thought there would have been a death certificate even with him dying at sea.

So, it seems I am left with 2 options.

1) David snr is not the man from Mid Calder as per above records. Could he have been Canadian in the British Army? Or just someone I have not found yet.

2) David snr is the man above and has embellished his military service somewhat. The birth found for George David by Margee is worth checking out even though the baptism date is before the date of birth I have.

The problem I have with the above theory is that Matilda and George are not names that occur anywhere else in the family. David is there, with Donald, Dorothy and Patrick also amongst David jnr's children. They all have their mother's maiden name added in their names as per the Scottish custom so I would have expected Matilda, as David's mother, to make an appearance. William is David's father in law. The boys all born in Devon. I have no idea why they were in Glasgow for Dorothy's birth.


David William Fowler Hatelie 1886 – 1942
Dorothy Roy Mary Fowler Hatelie 1898 – 1933 b Glasgow
Donald Patrick F Hatelie 1900 – 1900
Donald David Patrick Fowler Hatelie 1903 – 1976

I go along with Jan's post. The idea of him re-upping and making Lt Col in less than 9 y in a class-riddled institution like the peace-time British Army is not conceivable - it couldn't even have happened in WW1.

That makes sense, Michael!

I think that a likely explaination is that he was a lance corporal and the abreviation was mis transcribed ie L.Cor. to Lt.Col.

Thank you all for your very valuable input! I will need to keep digging but you have given me some more ideas to look at.

Jan, I must admit that I rather thought your OH's reply was what I expected. The mention of Canada between the correct time time for David's birth was what had me wondering.

Choccy, those records certainly sound as if they match the David Hatelie, 1837, that I found. Will dig a bit deeper with them but I have a feeling that this is not my gg grandfather.

Margee, the 1901 is definitely my ggrandfather, I amended the record. The birth you have found must be one of the children born to David and Matilda who have died by 1911.

Annielaurie, thank you also. I will have a look but don't hold put much hope as I have a feeling I have looked before and found my ggrandfather's promotions but nothing about his father.

Thank you all.

Liz