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MarieCeleste/Jude

Wanted to say a great thanks to you both for your help today. I do not believe I would have got this far on my own, being a newbie. Most appreciated. :-)

Lyn

The 1841 census confirms he couldn't have been born 1843 (perhaps that was a ruse to reduce age gap?)

LOWRY, Edward M 27 1814 occ Sadler (not born in County)
LOWRY, Sarah F 24 1817 Middlesex
LOWRY, Frederick M 4 1837 Middlesex
LOWRY, Emily F 3 1838 Middlesex
LOWRY, Edward M 1 1840 Middlesex

Piece: 713 Book/Folio: 8/5 Page: 3
Registration District: Stepney
Civil Parish: Stepney
Municipal Borough: Tower Hamlets

Address: Pleasant Row Pleasant Place, Stepney, Mile End Old Town, Lower, Tower Hamlets
County: Middlesex

You are looking for Frederick senior - in 1901 he gave year of birth as 1843 but the christening records show it has to be 1836. And I am sure it was this Frederick that "married" Beatrice though I cannot for the life of me find a marriage for them.

It was a second "marriage" for him with Frederick being the child of the first. And again I cannot for the life of me find that marriage.

They are missing in crucial censuses...Frederick wife and Frederick in 1861 and Frederick Beatrice and family in 1891. I have searched EVERYTHING!!!

Beatrice Ellen (junior) marries in December 1911 and her father Frederick's occupation is "dead". One of the witnesses was M Lowry (sister May/Mary perhaps)

This is the only one ( that was posted earlier)


Births Mar 1860 (>99%)
Lowry Frederick John Minners St. George S. 1d 132

Hi Lynette, I think Jude is right when she suspected that Frederick on the 1871 was the grandson and not the son.

Already mentioned on page 1 that I'd looked for a baptism but could only find the birth record. Might be worth sending for that birth certificate.

Marie Celeste/Jude

Could it be that since the baby was only 2 weeks old at the time of the 1861 census they subsequently decided to change the name to Frederick? Are either of you able to find a baptism record for Frederick Lowry born 1861 Middlesex/London?

Thanks for all your help.

Lyn

George from Maddie's 1861

name: George Lowry
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 16 Apr 1816
baptism/christening place: CUBY WITH TREGONY,CORNWALL,ENGLAND
father's name: Joseph Lowry
mother's name: Elizabeth
indexing project (batch) number: C05333-1
system origin: England-ODM
source film number:

and Frederick senior's father

name: Edward Wason Lawry
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 15 Sep 1814
baptism/christening place: CUBY WITH TREGONY,CORNWALL,ENGLAND
father's name: Joseph Lawry
mother's name: Elizabeth
indexing project (batch) number: C02227-1
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 254235, 254236

i.e. brothers...

No, I think your hunch is right Jude.

I know it does say son MC, but it's just a hunch that this is Frederick junior (and therefore a grandson). This is definitely Frederick senior's father. He seems to have married two Sarah's (Martin and Wooden according to a tree on A).

My GUESS is Frederick senior is widowed for sure in 1881..maybe he was already widowed in 1871 and that's why Frederick junior is with "grandfather". Problem is can't find any marriage for Frederick senior not to Frederick's mother or to Beatrice Ellen Innes :-(

I notice that the George Lowry in the 1861 that Maddie posted, and the Edward above are both from the same place.

Jude - just looked at the original of that 1871 and it does say Frederick is the son (odd)?

This is that family in 1861 (Edward's birthplace matches)

LOWERY, Edward Head Married M 46 1815 Cornwall, Tregonay
LOWERY, Sarah Wife Married F 34 1827 Harness Maker St Annes, Middlesex
LOWERY, Frank Son M 13 1848 London, Middlesex
LOWERY, George Son M 11 1850 London, Middlesex
LOWERY, James Son M 8 1853 London, Middlesex
LOWERY, Mary Daughter F 6 1855 London, Middlesex
LOWERY, Joseph Son M 4 1857 London, Middlesex
LOWERY, Anne Daughter F 2 1859 London, Middlesex
LOWERY, Thomas Son M 0 (2W) 1861 London, Middlesex

Piece: 267 Folio: 96 Page: 40
Registration District: Whitechapel
Civil Parish: Whitechapel

Address: 14, Dowsons Place, Whitechapel County: London

BUT - the baby that I would have expected to be Frederick is Thomas!!

I think this is Frederick 1860 - and he is not a son but a grandson


Name: Frederick Lowry
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Edward Lowry
Gender: Male
Where born: Bermondsey
Civil parish: Stepney
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
Town: Mile End New Town
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Whitechapel
Sub-registration district: Mile End New Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Household schedule number: 144
Piece: 513
Folio: 53
Page Number: 24
Household Members:
Name Age
Edward Lowry 56
George Lowry 21
Mary Lowry 17
Sarah Lowry 8
Joseph Lowry 14
Betsey Lowry 2
Frederick Lowry 11

It would be good to find Frederick senior in 1861/1871 with his first wife. And where on earth are they in 1891

In 1911 Beatrice Ellen does point to a marriage in 1886

Jude

HeyJudeB4Beatles
Thanks for info. I note the new spelling of the surname. Said with an East End accent not much difference to Lowry.

This is Frederick 1860 in 1911 with Alice

Name: Fredrick John Larrey
Age in 1911: 51
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: London, United Kingdom
Civil parish: Lambeth
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 122 York Road, Lambeth S E
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: HARNESS MAKER
Registration district: Lambeth
Registration District Number: 25
Sub-registration district: Lambeth Church
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Piece: 1951
Household Members:
Name Age
Fredrick John Larrey 51
Alice Larrey 48
Fredrick James Larrey 19

Marie Celeste
I am wondering whether Frederick John Lowry age 25 harness maker already married to Alice Tooze in 1885 is still the chap I am looking for.

I have Frederick John Miner Lowery 'married' to Beatrice in around 1886 but no record of that marriage. He too is described as a harness maker.

Potty

This maybe the same chap. Thanks for the info.

Lyn

Might Frederick John already be married to someone else?

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
Name: Frederick John Lowry - Harness Maker
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Spouse Name: Alice Tooze
Spouse Age: 22
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 25 Dec 1885
Parish: Hatcham Park All Saints
Borough: Lewisham
Father Name: Frederick Lowry
Spouse Father Name: James Tooze
Register Type: Parish Register

EDIT - No this would be the son, but will leave in case it's useful.

Marie Celeste
Thanks for that. I was hoping for confirmation of his parents in the baptism records but perhaps this is the most I will get for now. I am most grateful for your quick response. This may still be the chap I am after. Many thanks indeed.

The Frederick John Lowry b1860 died in 1913

Name: Frederick J Lowry
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1913
Age at Death: 53
Registration district: Lambeth
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1d
Page: 304 (click to see others on page)

Not seeing a baptism, just this birth:

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
Name: Frederick John Kinners Lowry
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1860
Registration district: St George Southwark
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1d
Page: 132