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Both Lancashire sites are free to use James :-D :-D

Linda

Thanks LindaB,

Yes, found that out, I have been having a browse through them, very useful sites, pity there does not seem to be similar for Scottish Local Authorities.

Best Wishes.

Jim

James

The only way I know of getting further details is to request a copy of the actual certificate, this should give details fo the exact date and place fo birth, parents etc.. Unfortunately you would have to pay for the certifictae. Other ways are to use sites that show other member tres and maybe you will find a record on the site and a n image of the actual certificate.
Good luck Charlie

Thanks Charles,

Managed to track the details down with help from earlier contributions and confirmation of the details on lancashirebmd.org.uk, and also found other relations as well, an excellent result which is down to the help I was given by everyone.

Regards,

James

Can someone tell me what the use of the word late signify when placed after the mothers forename in the example below?

Baptism
Day:22
Month:Jul
Year:1860
Forenames:James
Surname:BIRTWELL
Relationship:of
Father forenames:Robert
Fathers occupation:lab

??? Mother forenames:Mary late MONK ???

Birth Day:
Birth Month:
Birth Year:
Abode:
Place:March
County:Cambridgeshire,England
Record source:Cambridgeshire Baptisms

I ask because I am having difficulty tracing the parents marriage using the spouse name of Monk

Regards,

James

son Isaac's birth in Acrington showing mmn of Monk

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1839
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
BERTWELL Isaac Accrington Preston MONK ACC/2/18

possibly married pre 1837

1861
BIRTWELL, Robert Head Married M 44 1817 Gate Keeper
Accrington, Lancashire
BIRTWELL, Mary Wife Married F 43 1818 Gate Keeper Wife
Accrington, Lancashire
BIRTWELL, Elizabeth Daughter Unmarried F 9 1852 Scholar (Lincolnshire Bitham)
BIRTWELL, Richard Son M 6 1855 Scholar (Middx. Islington)
BIRTWELL, Thomas Son M 3 1858 Scholar
Cambridgeshire March
BIRTWELL, James M 0 (9M) 1861
Cambridgeshire March
Piece: 1044
Folio: 55
Page: 18
Registration District: North Witchford
Civil Parish: March
Municipal Borough:
Address: Chain Road, March
County: Cambridgeshire

1871
BIRTWELL, Robert Head M 54 1817 Lancashire
BIRTWELL, Mary Wife F 53 1818 Lancashire
BIRTWELL, Richard Son M 16 1855 London
BIRTWELL, Thomas Son M 13 1858 Cambridgeshire
BIRTWELL, James Son M 10 1861 Cambridgeshire
BIRTWELL, Elizabeth Daughter F 19 1852 Lincolnshire
BIRTWELL, Isaac Son M 30 1841 Lancashire
BIRTWELL, Elizabeth Daughter-In-Law F 21 1850 Middlesex
BIRTWELL, Helen Granddaughter F 5 1866 Middlesex
Piece: 1610
Folio: 55
Page: 8
Registration District: North Witchford
Civil Parish: March
Municipal Borough:
Address: Wisbech Road (Railway Gate House), March
County: Cambridgeshire

Chris :)

Burial
Forenames:Robert
Surname:Birtwell
Residence:Wisbech Road
Day:7
Month:Oct
Year:1875
Age:58
Notes:
Parish:March, Station Road Cemetery
County:Cambridgeshire
Grave details:J 104
Record source:Cambridgeshire Burials

I know it usually means that on a marriage record but is it the same on a baptism Reggie?

The eldest son in 1871 Isaac (see above) is shown as having mmn = Monk

1851 living in Bytham Lincolnshire

Robert Birtwell 43
Mary Birtwell 32
Isaac Birtwell 13
Margret Birtwell 6
William Clark 29
Robert Hall 54
William Porter 23

all Birtwells born Accrington

intersting??

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1845
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
BIRTWELL Margaret Accrington Preston FRANKLAND ACC/5/94

Burial
First name(s): Margaret
Last name: BIRTWELL
Date of burial 4 Jan 1859
Age at death: 14
Calculated year of birth: 1845
Place of burial March
Dedication: St Wendreda
County: Cambridgeshire

Chris :)

edits (can see Burial of son Thomas, also his 2 wives, if you need at any time!)

lancashireAnn, Reggie. and Chris Ho :)

Thanks everyone, with Isaac being married to May Monk the pieces of the jigsaw begin to make sense, in many ways it is like a jigsaw as once you have the border complete you can then fill in the rest.

I had a Robert married to Mary Monk instead of Isaac, but Robert was Isaac's father and that is where I screwed things up.

Thanks again everyone, wish I had just a fraction of your expertise, you are all brilliant.

Best Regards

James :-)

no you were right first time James. That was isaac's BIRTH not marriage that I posted showing his mother's maiden name was Monk, so Robert was married to Mary Monk. She may of course have been married before marrying Robert as it is always her birth surname that appears on the index

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1839
Surname = BERTWELL
Forename(s) = Isaac
Sub-District = Accrington
Registers At Preston
Mother's Maiden Name = MONK
Reference ACC/2/18

While I was browsing through lancashirebmd.org.uk trying to track the marriage/death details for Isaac Birtwell b 1841, I was amazed at how fatal scarlet fever was in the 19th century, when I was a child you were kept of school for a couple of weeks.

you must be younger than me then James. I remember my friend being taken into an isolation hospital when she had scarlet fever.

by the way did you know that one of the best features of lan-opc is its search facility. I rarely use anything else as then you do not need to know which parish you want.

if it helps this is the 1871 census for Isaac (see Chris's 1871 detailed above)

Robert Birtwell 54
Mary Birtwell 53
Richard Birtwell 16
Thomas Birtwell 13
James Birtwell 10
Elizabeth Birtwell 19
Isaac Birtwell 30 - son of Robert
Elizabeth Birtwell 21 - Isaac's wife from Middlesex
Helen Birtwell 5 - Isaac's daughter born Middlesex

census place March in Cambridgeshire

from that info I would guess this is Isaac's marriage

Marriages Dec 1862 (>99%)
Birtwell Isaac Shoreditch 1c 468 <<<<<<<<
Martin Rosaline Shoreditch 1c 468
Stow Joseph Watson Shoreditch 1c 468
Veazey Elizabeth Shoreditch 1c 468 <<<<<<<<

Isaac is on the 1891 census living in London but can't find him in 1901 so this is possibly his death

Deaths Sep 1899 (>99%)
Birtwell Isaac 62 Uxbridge 3a 32

Thanks for that lancashireAnn,

I picked up Isaac Birtwell in London area on 1891 Census as follows:-

1891 Census

BIRTWELL, Isaac Head Married M 51 1840 Stone Mason
Accrington, Lancashire
BIRTWELL, Elizabeth Wife Married F 50 1841
Islington, London
BIRTWELL, Rose Daughter F 13 1878
Islington, London

And these details of a marriage in Shoreditch:-

Name: BIRTWELL, Isaac
Registration district: [?] Shoreditch
County: London
Year of registration: 1862
Quarter of registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Spouse's last name Not available before 1912
Volume no: [?] 1C
Page no: [?] 468

1881 VEAZEY, Elizabeth
Registration district: [?] Shoreditch
County: London
Year of registration: 1862
Quarter of registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Spouse's last name Not available before 1912
Volume no: [?] 1C
Page no: [?] 468

I have looked everywhere, he seems to have disappeared for the 1881 Census but in saying that I may have over looked him as I am seeing Birtwell's everywhere at the moment, that said I cannot find anything to suggest that Elizabeth Veazey was not his wife.

Regards,

James

groom's name: Isaac Birtwell
groom's birth date:
groom's birthplace:
groom's age:
bride's name: Elizabeth Veazey
bride's birth date:
bride's birthplace:
bride's age:
marriage date: 16 Nov 1862
marriage place: Saint John The Baptist,Shoreditch,London,England
groom's father's name:
groom's mother's name:
bride's father's name:
bride's mother's name:
groom's race:
groom's marital status:
groom's previous wife's name:
bride's race:
bride's marital status:
bride's previous husband's name:
indexing project (batch) number: M04037-1
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 589947, 589948, 589949, 590841, 590842, 590843, 590844, 590845, 590846
reference number:

1881 under the name Birtnell living in Islington with wife Elizabeth

found it by just looking for Isaac (no Surname) b 1841 in Accrington