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I need some objective opinions please folks! I have linked the following census reports, but a relative is questioning my research and I can't sort out what to think. Now, I researched this a while back, and am quite prepared that i might have messed up.

Below is the 1851 census for Maria Myatt. This is without question our family. Her son - i.e. Elizabeth's husband - was John Worsey Myatt, name obtained from youngest child's birth cert.

Following the 1851 is an 1841 census, and by a lucky fluke birthplaces have been given for Maria Myatt (Derbyshire) and James Myatt (Staffs). James married his wife Constance Pfender in Handsworth in 1827 - I have researched the family forwards and this is definitely correct. Obviously no relationships are given 1841 but I have worked on the possibility that Maria is James' mother, and hence he is brother to John Worsey Myatt.

The research for the 2 families is definitely correct - but now I am wondering if I have linked the 2 of them too easily. But I felt her birthplace and the Handsworth connection quite tempting.

Our contact's reasons for objecting are how he came to meet someone from Switzerland, and the fact that there are no relatives of his on the marriage record - but I am at a loss to see how this affects things one way or the other!

I suppose I am really trying to say - are the odds in favour of this being the same Maria Myatt?

Hope it isn't too confusing, but here goes:

1851 England Census
Name: Maria Myatt
Age: 80
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1771
Relation: Mother-in-law
Gender: F (Female)
Where born: Lenton, Derbyshire, England

Civil parish: Handsworth
County/Island: Staffordshire

Registration district: West Bromwich
Sub-registration district: Handsworth

Elizabeth Myatt 45
John Myatt 21
Elizabeth Myatt 18
Thomas Myatt 16
Maria Myatt 9
Maria Myatt 80


1841 England Census
Name: Maria Myatt
Age: 70
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1771
Gender: Female

Civil parish: Manchester
Hundred: Salford
County/Island: Lancashire

Registration district: Manchester
Sub-registration district: Ancoats

James Myatt 35 born Staffs
Constance Myatt 35
Amelia Myatt 14
Sigemand Myatt 10
Harriet Myatt 12
Maria Myatt 70 born Derbyshire

Many thanks.

jan

Jan, Have I got the right family in 1841....there is a James with a Constance ( not Harriet) and a Maria aged 70.
His occupation is Engineer....if this is the right family...quite possible as an engineer he travelled...so hence he could have gone to Switzerland.

Regards Vera

I was just wondering about Constance too Vera ???

Perhaps she is a second wife ??

Dea x

Blimey, tried so hard and still managed to mess up. So sorry - Harriet is the daughter, Constance Pfender is the wife.
Grovelling apologies!! Have amended original query.
Thanks for replies.
Jan

No problem...been there done that as well. :-)

Regards Vera

Naughty Jan !!! ;-) :-D

Dea Xxx

I know. :-0 Should stick to other peoples' trees.
Jan

James Myatt
Spouse Name: Constance Emilie Francoise Spender
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 17 Feb 1827
Parish: St Mary Abchurch
Borough: City of London
Register Type: Parish Register


As you say there are no Myatt witness'...but there is a Henrietta Pfender ....Constance has been mistranscibed as Spender.
It all seems to fit, re Maria. Well thats what I think.

Regards Vera

:-)

Thanks Vera. My gut feeling (don't say it!!) is I have got the right person, not least of all because there don't seem to be 2 of her on any one census, if you see what I mean!
Thank God the enumerator was over-keen and put birthplaces on 1841!
Thanks for input
jan x

I would second that,maybe it wasn't James visiting Switzerland.
As Constance in 1861 is a Proffesor of languages could it have been her visiting England.
Either way it certainly looks like the same family,I noticed they got married by licence,does that mean they were in a hurry to get married??
It also doesn't state any witness's or any other names so what is the person who is questioning your research on about?

Maryb.

There were several witnesses:

Harry Malleson, Agnes Marie Malleson, Henriette Pfender and Louise Pugnou ? (??Bugnon) >>

I agree with Mary that it was probably her coming over here as a Professor of languages and then they met here rather that James travelling over there?

Dea x

Thanks Mary & Dea. What you say makes total sense. Mind you, it makes no difference regarding James' parentage does it? The relative has argued that it is unusual to have no relatives as witnesses - not so, and in any case it proves nothing re/ whether he is related to us or not.

James was an engineer in 1841, and interestingly Thomas Myatt (his possible nephew) was an engine fitter, though whether this had any bearing I am unsure. Thomas worked on the railways so I did vaguely wonder if James did the same, hence his moving around quite a bit, though he ended up as an engine minder in a cotton factory by 1861. We'll never know.

Never found James 1851 - I asked for help some while back, but I think came to the conclusion the census met a sorry fate along with others for Manchester!

I shall stick to my original theory for now I think.

Jan :-)

Perhaps they were abroad in 1851

Good thinking Jim. James obviously married well didn't he!
Jan

They are under Myall here...


http://www.1851-unfilmed.org.uk/1851page.php?book=3B&transcript=78&districtname=Manchester,%20London%20Road&subdistrict=M3

Another transcription of Christina's 1851 find:

Census 1851:

Address: 4, Aytoun Street, Manchester
County: Lancashire

MYALL, James Head Married M 51 1800 EngineerBirmingham
MYALL, Constance Wife Married F 49 1802 Litherland, Lancashire
MYALL, Rstemi Son Unmarried M 21 1830 Warehouse Man
Litherland, Lancashire
MYALL, Harriet Dau Unmarried F 19 1832 Litherland, Lancashire
ROBINSON, Illegible Visitor Unmarried M 21 1830 Warehouse Man
?one, North?
MCGINNES, Alice Servant Unmarried F 13 1838 Domestic Servant
Manchester


Note The image is not the original census , but a typed transcript.

Source of one of those Malleson witnesses?

Name: Marie Francois Pfender
Spouse Name: Harry Malleson
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 28 Dec 1816
Parish: Chelsea St Luke
Borough: Kensington and Chelsea
Register Type: Parish Register

Harry Malleson also a witness at this marriage:

Name: Jean Michael Pfender
Spouse Name: Marianne Françoise Baatard
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 28 May 1829
Parish: St Marylebone
Borough: Westminster
Register Type: Parish Register

So definitely looking like the Pfenders came to England, and Constance almost certainly met James over here.

Thank you very much for 1851 Christina and Kucinta - I don't believe this is on Ancestry, I am assuming one of the damaged pages has been retrieved.
And you have sorted out the Pfenders too it seems Kucinta! Thanks so much.

Do you have any opinion re. Maria, while I have you at my disposal?! :-D :-D :-D :-D

Jan xx

Have pmed you the image of the 1851 transcript.