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Hi, can anyone help please? Looking for the parents of Lucy Gardner who was my great great grandma, born about 1848 in Shipton on Store/Stour Warwickshire, died in 1924 in Runcorn, Cheshire. She married John Jakeman 1839 to 1914 in Moreton Morrell Stratford upon Avon on 12th October 1865. I have their marriage certificate which states that Lucys father was William and a labourer. Lucy Gardner appears on 1871 to 1911 census but I am unable to find a birth or entry for her or on 1841,1851 and 1861 census. I have found three possible Williams but not sure who is the correct one. Lucy Gardner appears on several trees on GR but no one has searched any further than her marriage, faced the same brick wall as me? Grateful for any help Thanks

Found myself looking at this family in 1861


1861 England Census
about Lucy Gurner
Name:
Lucy Gurner
Age:11
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1850
Relation:Daughter
Father's Name:William Gurner
Mother's Name:Esther Gurner
Gender:Female
Where born:Shipston on Stour, Worcestershire, England
Civil Parish:Loxley
County/Island:Warwickshire
Country:England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage: View Image
Registration District:Stratford On Avon
Sub-registration District:Wellesbourne
ED, institution, or vessel:1
Neighbors:View others on page
Household Schedule Number:72
Piece:2229
Folio:11
Page Number:16

Household Members:
Name
Age
William Gurner 34
Esther Gurner 26
Lucy Gurner 11
Thomas Gurner 7
William Gurner 4
Emma Gurner 3
Prudance Pittaway 8


and maybe parents marriage??

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Mar 1852 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gardner William Shipston on Stour 6d 539
Pittaway Esther Shipston on Stour 6d 539


Andy

Thanks Andy, looks promising, will look further into it. Jo

For Ref

Warwickshire, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1910
about Lucy Gardner Name: Lucy Gardner
Birth Year: abt 1847
Age: 19
Spouse Name: John Jakeman
Spouse Age: 26
Marriage or Bann Date: 12 Oct 1866
Event Type: Marriage
Parish: Moreton Morrell
Father Name: William Gardner
Spouse Father Name: William Jakeman

Well done Andy - this then looks like her birth:

Births Jun 1848 (>99%)
Pittway Lucy Ann Elizabeth Shipston on S 11 414

Dea x

Possiobles.

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Lucy Gardner Name: Lucy Gardner
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1848
Registration District: Banbury
Inferred County: Oxfordshire
Volume: 16
Page: 16

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Lucy Gardner Name: Lucy Gardner
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1849
Registration District: Birmingham
Inferred County: Warwickshire
Volume: 16
Page: 322

????

Name: Edward Veal
Birth Date: 1850
Birthplace:
Age: 32
Spouse's Name: Prudence Pittaway
Spouse's Birth Date: 1853
Spouse's Birthplace:
Spouse's Age: 29
Event Date: 01 Jan 1882
Event Place: All Saints, Birmingham, Warwick, England
Father's Name: William Veal
Mother's Name:
Spouse's Father's Name: William Ivens
Spouse's Mother's Name:
Race:
Marital Status: Single
Previous Wife's Name:
Spouse's Race:
Spouse's Marital Status: Single
Spouse's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M00803-2
System Origin: England-EASy
GS Film number: 1520010
Reference ID: it 1, p 211, no 422

Hi Susan, the marriage details that you give are the same except for the date, the marriage certificate deffinitely says 1865 Jo

The date is 1865. Its wrong in the transcribed record. Have sent correction.

Andy

Thanks to all, going by the possible marriage of William and Esther in 1852, it seems that Lucy was born before they got married? Jo

1851 England Census about Lucy Pitway
Name: Lucy Pitway
Age: 2
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1849
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Hannah Pitway
Gender: F (Female)
Where born: Shipston, Worcestershire, England

Civil Parish: Shipston on Stour
Town: Shipston on Stour
County/Island: Worcestershire
Country: England


Registration District: Shipston On Stour
Sub-registration District: Campden
ED, institution, or vessel: 9b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Schedule Number: 82
Piece: 2076
Folio: 531
Page Number: 20
Household Members:
Name Age
Hannah Pitway 55
Elizabeth Pitway 19
Sarah Pitway 17
Richard Pitway 14
Lucy Pitway 2 *****

William Hughes 48
Jane Hughes 49
Emma Hughs 17
Joseph Shigher 12
Lydia Hughes 10
Ellen Hughes 8

NB - The Hughes family are a seperate household.

Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 2076; Folio: 531; Page: 20; GSU roll: 87345.



This 'could' be Esther on 1841 and it seems she is working as a servant in a 'Gardner' Household - I wonder if there is some connection here?

1841 census transcription details for: New Street, Shipston On Stour
Print Close

National Archive Reference:
RG number: HO107
Piece: 1203
Book/Folio: 12/26
Page: 9
Reg. District: Shipston on Stour
Sub District: Shipston on Stour
Parish: Shipston on Stour
Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: New Street, Shipston On Stour
County: Worcestershire
Name Relation Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
GARDNER, Thomas M 25 1816 Worcestershire Carpenter
GARDNER, Ann F 25 1816 Worcestershire
GARDNER, Martha F 0 (10 months) 1841 Worcestershire
PITTAWAY, Esther F 12 1829 Worcestershire Female servant


Dea x

Hi Dea, am trying to get my head around this, are we assuming that Prudence Pittaway age 8 on 1861 census noted as niece of head is is Esthers niece and therefore he maiden name was Pittaway which then links in with marriage that Andy found for 1852 and the birth that you found for 1848? On 1851 census about Lucy Pitway, do you think that Hannah could have been her grandma/auntie because of her aged 55? Sorry if I appear to be confusing matters. Jo

Trying to find Esther in earlier census and found this. Would explain why she had left Lucy, possible with grandparent?


1851 England Census
about Ester Petteway
Name:Ester Petteway
Age:20
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1831
Relation:Servant
Gender:F (Female)
Where born:Shipston, Worcestershire, England
Civil Parish:Clifford Chambers
County/Island:Gloucestershire
Country:England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Disability: View Image
Registration District:Stratford On Avon
Sub-registration District:Kineton
ED, institution, or vessel:3
Neighbors:View others on page
Household Schedule Number:10
Piece:2074
Folio:349
Page Number:3
Household Members:
Name
Age
Thomas Adams 47
Sarah Adam 66
Catherine Mansell 19
>>>>>>>Ester Petteway 20
William Germer 27
John Gibbs 88
William Harres 19


The image is faint and age is wrong, but could William Germer be William Gardner??


Andy

There is also Esther Pittaway age 12 (getting younger all the time) as a servant in 1841 census.


This date of birth would make more sense than the c1835 as in the 1861 census originally posted as she would have been only 15 when married.

Andy

Yes Jo,

I haven't looked in detail at Prudence but working from Andy's 1871 and the marriage he found then Esther was named Pitway/Pittaway and they married some years after Lucy was born so she would have been Lucy Pitway/Pittaway at birth.

I posted her birth registration detains in 1848 above. - If you buy the cert it will give her parents but I doubt if a father will be mentioned.

I have posted the 1851 which shows Lucy as the daughter of Hannah but this is VERY doubtful, given her age.

Births Jun 1848 (>99%)
Pittway Lucy Ann Elizabeth Shipston on S 11 414

I would guess that Esther is Hannah's daughter but at the time of 1841 census she is working away from home (strangely, for a family called Gardner, which may or may not be connected to William - I think it probably is).

When Esther married, Lucy took on the name Gardner.

Just as further info, there are two lots of details showing Lucy's baptism - they seem to be having difficulty transcribing her second middle name:

Lucy Elizabeth Bain Pitway

England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

christening: 13 August 1848 Shipston upon Stour, Worcester, England
residence: England

parents:Esther Pitway (no father mentioned)



Lucy Elizabeth Pam Pitway

England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

christening: 13 August 1848 SHIPSTON-ON-STOUR,WORCESTER,ENGLAND

parents:Esther Pitway (no father mentioned)


There is this baptism for Esther which shows her parents as Hannah and Richard so this proves that Hannah 'did' have a daughter called Esther, even though we have not found them together on any census:

Esther Pitway, "England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975"
Name: Esther Pitway
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 24 Apr 1833
Christening Place: SHIPSTON-ON-STOUR,WORCESTER,ENGLAND

Father's Name: Richard Pitway
Mother's Name: Hannah

Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C04386-1
System Origin: England-ODM
GS Film number: 559239
Reference ID:

It all looks to be a 'fit' ??

Do ask again if there is anything not quite clear.

Dea x

This could be Hannah and Richard from 1841

Richard Pittaway 55
Hannah Pittaway 45
Mary Pittaway 18
John Pittaway 13
Elizabeth Pittaway 10
Sarah Pittaway 8
Richard Pittaway 4
Harriet Pittaway 4 Mo

There is a possible death for Richard in 1843


Andy

I have now looked for the niece 'Prudence'.

FamilySearch site shows the following baptism:


Prudence Pitway, "England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975"
Name: Prudence Pitway
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 14 Nov 1852
Christening Place: Shipston, Worcester, England

Mother's Name: Elizabeth Pitway (no father mentioned)

Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C00932-8
System Origin: England-EASy
GS Film number: 367957
Reference ID: P113 No 902

So, Prudence is the daughter of Esther's younger sister Elizabeth, therefore neice to William and Esther.

Dea x

Just to throw a bit of confusion in.....


Hester Pittaway,

Gender: Female
Christening Date: 23 Oct 1825
Christening Place: SHIPSTON-ON-STOUR,WORCESTER,ENGLAND
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Richard Pittaway
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Hannah
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C04386-1
System Origin: England-ODM
GS Film number: 559239
Reference ID


Andy

Have you missed the name of the child off that christening record Andy ?

Dea x

Oopsssss.

Hester Pittaway

Andy