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thank you to all for your post great help

Baptism
County Kent
Place Dartford
Church Holy Trinity Pr
RegisterNumber 230
DateOfBirth
BaptismDate 11 Feb 1872
Forename Mary Ann Elizabeth
Sex -
FatherForename Walter
MotherForename Mary Ann
FatherSurname PRIZEMAN
MotherSurname
Abode Lambeth
FatherOccupation Lighterman

Baptism
County Kent
Place Dartford
Church Holy Trinity Pr
RegisterNumber 231
DateOfBirth
BaptismDate 11 Feb 1872
Forename Walter Robert
Sex -
FatherForename Walter
MotherForename Mary Ann
FatherSurname PRIZEMAN
MotherSurname
Abode Lambeth
FatherOccupation Lighterman

County Kent
Place Belvedere (Erith)
Church All Saints
RegisterNumber 216
MarriageDate 25 Dec 1889
GroomForename Walter
GroomSurname PRIZEMAN
GroomAge 20
GroomParish
GroomCondition Bachelor
GroomOccupation Waterman & Lighterman
GroomAbode Harrow Rd
BrideForename Alice
BrideSurname PRIZEMAN
BrideAge 19
BrideParish
BrideCondition Spinster
BrideOccupation
BrideAbode Harrow Rd
GroomFatherForename Walter
GroomFatherSurname PRIZEMAN
GroomFatherOccupation Waterman & Lighterman
BrideFatherForename Charles
BrideFatherSurname PRIZEMAN
BrideFatherOccupation Waterman & Lighterman
WitnessOneForename Charles James Nelson
WitnessOneSurname PRIZEMAN
WitnessTwoForename Mary Elizabeth
WitnessTwoSurname PRIZEMAN

(above from below, if fitting anywhere!)

http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/Search.pl

Chris :)

It does help when birth dates and places are added to posted censuses!

Isabel Rosali in 1911

Name: Isabel Rosali Priseman
Age in 1911: 45
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1866
Relation to Head: J F P
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Poplar, London, England
Civil Parish: Upchurch
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Street Address: Barque Lion, Rainham, Kent
Marital Status: Married
Years Married: 2
Estimated Marriage Year: 1909
Registration District: Milton
Registration District Number: 61
Sub-registration District: Milton

Walter Priseman 64
Isabel Rosali Priseman 45



I have no idea what "J.F.P." means as her relationship to Walter!!

However her name on the image is Isabel Rosalie

????????????????

This is a weird one ...............

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Elizabeth Burgess
Name: Elizabeth Burgess
Spouse Name: George Eatwell
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 4 Apr 1866
Parish: Bermondsey St Luke
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: John Burgess Labourer
Spouse Father Name: Jurden Eatwell
Register Type: Parish Register


Censuses show her to be born ca 1838 in Great Oakley, Essex. She's a widow living in Rotherhithe on the 1871, 1881 and 1891 Censuses.

But I can't then find her



could this possibly be the Elizabeth "Cross" who married Walter in 1892????

I note that Elizabeth / Eliza has apparently lost 20 years in the 1901 Census!

She is now 10 years younger than Walter, whereas she was 10 years older when they married in 1892!!

Name Age
Walter Prizeman 54 Bargeman
Eliza Prizeman 44, Shopkeeper <<<<<<<<< b.ca 1857, Great Oakley, Essex
Alfred Prizeman 18, Shipwight apprentice



Her age is definitely written as 44 on this census, and as 54 in the Parish Register!

could this be Elizabeth's death???



England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915 about Elizabeth Prizeman

Name: Elizabeth Prizeman
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1838
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1906
Age at Death: 68
Registration District: St Olave Bermondsey
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1d
Page: 114

Walter with his parents in 1851

1851 Census

Name: Walton Periman
[Walter Prizeman]
[Walton Prizeman]
[Walter Periman]
[Walter Periman]
[Walter Prizeman]
[Walton Prizman]
[Walton Prizeman]
[Walton Prizeman]
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Jas Nelson Periman
Mother's Name: Elizth Periman
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Lambeth, Surrey, England

Civil Parish: Lambeth
Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrew
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Registration District: Lambeth
Sub-registration District: Waterloo Road First

Jas Nelson Periman 43 b.a 1808, Lambeth, Lighterman
Elizth Periman 34 b.ca 1817, Westminster, Middlesex
Henry Periman 18 Lighterman
Alfred Periman 19 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<< I think his age is 12 on the image
George Periman 7
Fredk Periman 5
Walton Periman 1
Chrowles Periman 1


Additional surname change submitted to ancestry by other people for all family members .................. to Prizeman




sylvia

I don't see this posted ............

Walter and Mary Ann Day's marriage form ancestry



London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Walter Prizeman

Name: Walter Prizeman
Age: Full Age
Spouse Name: Mary Ann Day
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 2 Nov 1868
Parish: Poplar All Saints
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: James Prizeman
Spouse Father Name: John Day
Register Type: Parish Register

from image:-

Walter
Occupation:- Lighterman
Address:- Catherine Street
Father occupation:- Lighterman

Mary Ann
no occupation shown
Address:- Catherine Street
Father occupation:- Lighterman

Witnesses:- Mary Ann Smith (her mark) and George ????

I can't read the surname of witness George ......... but his name appears on other certificates, so he is probably a "professional witness".



Then there is this marriage


London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Walter Prizeman

Name: Walter Prizeman
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
Age: 44
Spouse Name: Elizabeth Cross
Spouse Age: 54
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 18 Dec 1892
Parish: Bermondsey St James
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: James Nelson Prizeman
Spouse Father Name: John Burgess
Register Type: Parish Register

from image:-

Walter
Widower
Occupation:- Lighterman
Address:- 58 Princes Road
Father's occupation:- Lighterman

Elizabeth
Widow
no occupation shown
Address:- same
Father occupation:- Labourer (deceased)

Witnesses:- P. Singleton and E.M. Cutting




sylvia

This could be Emma in 1891 if she's the one born in Lambeth.

1891 England Census
Name: Emma Prizeman
Age: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874
Relation: Inmate
Gender: Female
Where born: Lambeth, London, England
Civil Parish: Camberwell
Ecclesiastical parish: Camberwell St Giles
Town: Dulwich
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: Havil Street, Ward 3
Occupation: Inmate
Registration District: Camberwell
Sub-registration District: Camberwell
ED, institution, or vessel: Camberwell Infirmary

Births Mar 1869 Prizeman Walter Robert Dartford 2a 385

Births Jun 1871 Prizeman Mary Ann E Dartford 2a 362
or
Births Dec 1872 PRIZEMAN Mary Ann A Dartford 2a 370

Perhaps
Births Sep 1874 Prizeman Emma Lambeth 1d 313

Births Mar 1876 PRIZEMAN Rosina St. Saviour 1d 24

Births Dec 1878 PRIZEMAN Frederick Poplar 1c 729

Possible
Births Dec 1879 Prizeman Alfred St. Saviour 1d 147
Deaths Dec 1879 Prizeman Alfred 0 St. Saviour 1d 99

Births Sep 1881 Prizeman George Arthur Greenwich 1d 984

Births Dec 1882 Prizeman Alfred Greenwich 1d 1024

Births Jun 1885 Prizeman Eliza Greenwich 1d 1001

Births Mar 1890 Prizeman James Forest Greenwich 1d 1109 (transcription error probably)

Thanks rg. I can't find any marriage for Walter to Isabel though.

The crossing out of marriage years and children on 1911 might be by the collator as only women were supposed to give that info. Interesting that he had 10 children and we know of 8.

Well found Ozibird. I just couldn't find a death for her but everything was pointing to a possible death prior to 1891.

I think this is possibly Mary Ann:

Deaths Mar 1890 Pri__man Mary Ann 41 Greenwich 1d 745

It is close in age to this:
Births Sep 1847 Day Mary Ann Stepney 2 454 (Stepney was the registration district for Limehouse at the time.)

Walter may have been away when Mary Ann died and the informant of the death registration may not have known her exact birth date.

???

Name: Emma Prizeman
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1899
Age at Death: 24
Registration District: Fulham
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1a
Page: 228

The 1891 transcript for Walter that Rootgatherer found is totally different to the image. I don't know if you were aware of this.

Looks like Walter had the 2 elder boys with him and had someone caring for the 2 younger children.

1891 England Census
Name: Walter Prizeman
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relation: Crew
Gender: Male
Where born: Lambeth, Surrey, England
Civil Parish: Vessels
Town: Sheerness
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage: widower
Registration District: Sheppey
Sub-registration District: Minster
Piece: 723
Folio: 17
Household Members: Name Age
Walter Prizeman 45 (abt 1851) - Lambeth, Surrey - Master
Edwin Brisland 25 (abt 1866) - Chat, Kent - Mate
George Prizeman 11 (abt 1880) - Banksin, Surrey - Passenger <<<<<<<<<<<<
Fred Prizeman 13 (abt 1878) - Erith, Kent - Crew <<<<<<<<<<<<

Thames watermen and lightermen 1688-2010
Print Close
Last name: Prizeman
First names: Walter
Bound year: 1886
Bound month: May
Bound day: 11
Where from/Notes: Greenwich
Master's last name: Prizeman
Master's first names: Walter
Date free: 1892 Aug 10
Source: Binding Records 1692-1949
Record source: Thames watermen and lightermen
Data provider: Rob Cottrell, Trueflare Limited

thank you guys for all your posts

Well found Andrew! I was struggling to find any of them (apart from Walter) in 1891.

1911

Name: Frederick Prizeman
Age in 1911: 32
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1879
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Poplar, London, England
Civil Parish: Sittingbourne
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Street Address: No 10 Station St, Sittingbourne, Kent
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Bargeman
Registration District: Milton
Registration District Number: 61
Sub-registration District: Milton
ED, institution, or vessel: 29
Household Schedule Number: 220
Piece: 4445
Household Members:
Name Age
Frederick Prizeman 32
Emma Parks 29
Frederick Walter Prizeman 6
Daisy Annie Prizeman 4
Gladys Prizeman 3



1901

Name: Alfred Prizeman
Age: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1883
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Walter Prizeman
Mother's Name: Eliza Prizeman
Gender: Male
Where born: Deptford, London, England

Civil Parish: Rotherhithe
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View Image

Registration District: St Olave Southwark
Sub-registration District: Rotherhithe
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Schedule Number: 46
Piece: 397
Folio: 137
Page Number: 9
Household Members:
Name Age
Walter Prizeman 54 Bargeman
Eliza Prizeman 44, Shopkeeper
Alfred Prizeman 18, Shipwight apprentice

1891

Annie Tedman 53 Sick Nurse
Eliza Prizman 5
Alfred Prizman 9

Andy