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Raymond Jones was born in Birmingham in 1940. His parents were probably not married. His faither's name was George H Jones. Genes gives three maiden names for women whose children were named Raymond Jones, born in Birmingham in 1940. Their maiden names were Fisher, Price and Davis. No one knows who Raymond's mother was, and the family would like to know. He only ever had a shortened birth certificate

When Raymond was nine he was adopted by the French family and had a very happy childhood with them. Raymond died in 1986.

Thank you for any help you can give me.

When was he born? one was in a different quarter

Was he born Sept?

Did he have a middle initial of G if so it would probably be the Davis one

I'm sorry but I don't know.

Was he Raymond L. O.
Raymond R
or Raymond G.
??

Do you have the short certificate ?
If you apply for the full cert it would give you mother's name

Is this the death


England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2007
about Raymond French




Name:
Raymond French

Birth Date:
14 Sep 1940

Date of Registration:
Jun 1986

Age at Death:
45

Registration district:
Bideford

Inferred County:
Devon

Volume:
21

Page:
953

There is also a birth for a Raymond without a middle initial in Wednesbury which covers some of Birmingham

I'm pretty sure he was born in Birmingham itself.

Yes, that's him, Jax. I don't even know if he had a middle name. Sorry, I'm not much help.

This is Raymond's death record

Name: Raymond French
Birth Date: 14 Sep 1940
Date of Registration: Jun 1986
Age at Death: 45
Registration district: Bideford
Inferred County: Devon
Volume: 21
Page: 953

so yes he was born in September ;) you know it was Birmingham?

but his birth could have been registered in either the third or fourth quarters of that year

(FreeBMD has not transcribed the third quarter of that year it seems so I used Ancestry)

with mother Fisher was in the first quarter
with mother Price was in the first quarter

so that leaves mother Davis in the Oct-Dec quarter

Name: Raymond G Jones
Mother's Maiden Surname: Davis
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1940
Registration district: Birmingham
Inferred County: Warwickshire
Volume Number: 6d
Page Number: 392

(the G might well have been George for his father)

I would apply for that birth certificate, you can specify either the date of birth or the father's name for example so if it is not a match you won't be charged, but as that seems to be the only available birth in Birmingham at the right time I would just go ahead and order it if I were you.

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/


edit, sorry, I hadn't realised this was such a current question with people working on it the same time as me, I will leave this here as we seem to be reaching the same conclusions :-)

You have all been so kind, doing this research so late at night. (I'm in B.C. Canada so it's only 4:20 pm here.)

Thank you all so much. I will certainly get the birth certificate. I won't close this 'page' though as someone else may be able to tell me more.

If his parents were not married and dad signed the birth register then their should be a duel entry after the legitimacy act of 1926

I would suggest you look for an entry for him in mothers name at the time of registration

Example, if Raymond Jones has MMN on the index as Davis, then search the same quarter for a birth as Raymond Davis, If its the same birth then the vol and page number should be the same as Raymond Jones

If Mr Jones was his dad but he never gave consent then he would not have been registered with surname Jones

Roy

you're right Porkie Pie, I always look automatically at Freebmd just by clicking the page number which you can't do at Ancestry anymore ...

there doesn't seem to be a corresponding registration in the name Davis though so perhaps that is not the right birth ... but it is the only one available !

I wonder whether, although Mr Jones was his father, he was not registered in his father's name ... is it certain that he was registered with surname Jones ?

Thanks for the additional information Porkie Pie. I understand that Raymond's mother was the best thing that ever happened to George Jones. Too bad she died so young.

I don't know that he was registered as Jones, but, although he really didn't know much about those few years alone with his father after his mother died, he did know that he was Raymond Jones.

Has anyone ever seen this short birth cert? or does anyone have it now?

Yes. I understand his wife has seen it, but it seems that there wasn't much info. on it.

but whatever info is on it would be enough to order his long form birth certificate !

specifically the exact name and date and place of birth


to recap

Raymond was born in 1940

he was 9 when he was adopted - 1949-50

he lived for a few years with his father after his mother died

so his mother died in the early to mid 1940s ?

does anyone know why Raymond was then adopted, for instance did his father also die ?

?? marriage

Name:
George H Jones
Spouse :Jessie A Davis
Date of Registration:
Apr-May-Jun 1936
Registration district:Southwark
Inferred County:Surrey
Volume Number:1d
Page Number:199



Name:
Raymond G Jones
Mother's Maiden Surname:
Davis
Date of Registration:
Oct-Nov-Dec 1940
Registration district:
Birmingham

??death

Name:
Jessie A Jones
Birth Date:abt 1901
Date of Registration:Jun 1948
Age at Death:47
Registration district:Birmingham
Inferred County:Warwickshire
Volume:9c
Page:93

After Raymond's mother died his father kept him for a time but he couldn't cope and the French family offered to adopt him. I believe that he was about six when they first met him so his Mother must have died in 1945 or a bit earlier.

Get his wife to find the 'short' cert..............the DOB will be on it, as will his FULL names

Use the info to get a copy of the 'long' cert...........then you will be looking for info based on facts

Don't place too much reliance of childhood memories of ages etc.....................time plays tricks.

I'd always thought that my mother died when I was 6 - when I started researching, I found that it was, in fact, when I was 7.

I don't think the short certificate is a short birth certificate,


Dianne 22 Feb 2014 00:45
"I don't know that he was registered as Jones, but, although he really didn't know much about those few years alone with his father after his mother died, he did know that he was Raymond Jones."

If he "remembers" his name as Jones then it looks like this short cert is in fact his adoption certificate and not a short birth certificate

Roy