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Venables married Sarah Jane Plant born Scotland to Benjamin 1824 born Derbyshire and Maria 1831 Scotland.According to tree on ancestry which seems to be OK.

They had Annie and Reginald Butterworth who in 1911 are with their aunt Maria Ellison sister of Sarah Jane Plant.

Maryb.

Sarah wife of Venables in 1881?


Census 1881:

Address: Green Vale, Blatchinworth With Calderbrook
County: Lancashire

PLANT, Benjamin Head Widower M 50 1831 Labourer
Derby, Derbyshire
PLANT, Maria Daughter Single F 22 1859 Cotton Throstle Spinner
Scotland
PLANT, Sarah J Daughter Single F 19 1862 Cotton Throstle Spinner
Scotland<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
PLANT, Susannah Daughter Single F 17 1864 Cotton Throstle Spinner Derby, Derbyshire
PLANT, Lily Daughter Single F 9 1872 Scholar Whitworth, Lancashire
GREENWOOD, Mary Lodger Married F 23 1858 Cotton Throstle Spinner
Rochdale, Lancashire

He must have been back as he has changed his board name from Ellis to Hopephil.

Dora's family in 1891?

Census 1891?

Five, not four daurs though

Address: 114, Joy Street, Wardleworth, Rochdale
County: Lancashire

BUTTERWORTH, Sarah Head Widow F 36 1855 Laundress
Shropshire, Dawley Green<<<<<<<<<<<<<
BUTTERWORTH, Emily Daughter F 10 1881 Scholar Rochdale, Lancashire
BUTTERWORTH, Annie Daughter F 8 1883 Scholar Rochdale, Lancashire
BUTTERWORTH, Lizzie Daughter F 7 1884 Scholar Rochdale, Lancashire
BUTTERWORTH, Lilly Daughter F 5 1886 Rochdale, Lancashire
BUTTERWORTH, Dora Daughter F 0 (1M) 1891 Rochdale, Lancashire

Same family in 1901:

Address: 63, Freehold Street, Rochdale County: Lancashire

BUTTERWORTH, Sarah Head Widow F 42 1859 Wellington, Salop<<<<<
BUTTERWORTH, Emily Daughter Single F 20 1881 Woollen Winder Rochdale, Lancashire
BUTTERWORTH, Annie Daughter Single F 18 1883 Laundress
Rochdale, Lancashire
BUTTERWORTH, Lizzie Daughter Single F 17 1884 Cotton Card Room Land Rochdale, Lancashire
BUTTERWORTH, Lily Daughter Single F 15 1886 Cotton Weaver
Rochdale, Lancashire
BUTTERWORTH, Dora Daughter Single F 10 1891 Rochdale, Lancashire<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
BUTTERWORTH, Alice Daughter Single F 2 1899 Rochdale, Lancashire

and where did young Alice spring from....???

1901 Sarah Butterworth widow 63 freehold street.
1911 Sarah widow married 32 years = 1879 ish
6 children born 1 died
Including Alice May 1898!!

Maryb.

1871 Castleton D12 > 51
71 Drake Street.
James Butterworth 58
Sarah 56
James 27 married? Shuttle maker as he is on 1881 census with Sarah nee Plant.

Maryb.

James and Sarah were already 'married' by census 1881:

Address: 9, Caton St, Castleton County: Lancashire

BUTTERWORTH, James Head Married M 36 1845 Shuttle Maker
Rochdale, Lancashire
BUTTERWORTH, Sarah Wife Married F 24 1857 Sawley Bank, Shropshire<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
BUTTERWORTH, Emily Daughter Single F 0 1881 Rochdale, Lancashire

Received this from Phil.

Hi Mel,
Sarah Plants parents:Joseph Plant b.1823. d. 1877 .Eliza Dunning
b.1826 d.1882. marr 1848 Shifnell.
I cannot prove that Sarah married Venables Butterworth but in 1873 she may have married a Richard Howarth in Salop who died in 1876.
many thanks Hopephil

Sarah Jane Plant born Scotland, who married Venables was still at home with father Benjamin and sister/witness? Maria in census 1881, James and Sarah from Shropshire were already cohabiting and had daur Emily by that time.

Venables' widow Sarah nee Plant born Scotland in 1891 with daur Annie in 1891:

Address: 10, Hannahs Yard, Wardleworth, RochdaleCounty: Lancashire

RIGBY, Elizabeth Head Single F 17 1874 Cotton Weaver
Rochdale
HOWARD, Lizzie Lodger Single F 18 1873 Cotton Weaver
Rochdale
BUTTERWORTH, Sarah Lodger Widow F 30 1861 Cotton Winder
Scotland<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
BUTTERWORTH, Annie Lodger F 6 1885 Oldham, Lancashire

Kucinta I don't think venables and Sarah Plant are th e right couple and hav'nt thought that since it was first posted.

Nor do I Mel, but was concerned by Hopephils's pm to you

"I cannot prove that Sarah married Venables Butterworth"

as it sounded like he still considered it a possibility, though unproven.

I HAV'NT MARKED MY FIRST POST AS ANSWERED!!!

1861 England Census about Joseph Plant
Name: Joseph Plant
Age: 37
Estimated birth year: 1824
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Eliza Plant
Gender: Male
Where born: Dawley

Civil Parish: Dawley
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View image

Registration district: Madeley
Sub-registration district: Dawley
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 254
Piece: 1855
Folio: 92
Page Number: 52
Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph Plant 37
Eliza Plant 35
Betsey Plant 11
George Plant 8
Jane Plant 8
Sarah Plant 4********************************
Joseph Plant 2


1871 England Census about Sarah Plant
Name: Sarah Plant
Age: 14
Estimated birth year: abt 1857
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Joseph Plant
Mother's name: Eliza Plant
Gender: Female
Where born: Dawley, Shropshire, England
Civil Parish: Lawley
Ecclesiastical parish: Lawley St John
Town: Lawley
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England
Registration district: Wellington
Sub-registration district: Wellington
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Household schedule number: 94
Piece: 2807
Folio: 68
Page Number: 20
Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph Plant 47
Eliza Plant 45
Elizabeth Plant 22
George Plant 18
Sarah Plant 14***************************
Joseph Plant 12
Adelade Plant 7
William Plant 5
John Plant 2
William Plant 1
Jane Plant 16

Phil says that Sarah's parents were Joseph and Eliza Dunning.

The marriage of Venables and Sarah Plant had her father as Benjamin Plant a Gardener on the marriage cert which I have seen so I think we can certainly say that that marriage is definately out.

Why have the pages stretched?? Who altered the box?

Why do you think she may have married a Howarth?

Richard Haworth married O/N/D 1873 in Shropshire to Sarah Plant,she would have been 16 if she was born 1857.

Maryb

1861 England Census about James Butterworth
Name: James Butterworth
Age: 16
Estimated birth year: 1845
Relation: Son
Father's Name: James Butterworth
Mother's name: Sarah Butterworth
Gender: Male
Where born: Rochdale, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Castleton
Ecclesiastical parish: Rochdale St Chad
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address: 71 Drake Street****************

Occupation:SHUTTLE MAKER

Registration district: Rochdale
Sub-registration district: Castleton Within
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 2
Piece: 3037
Folio: 37
Page Number: 1
Household Members:
Name Age
James Butterworth 45<<<GREEN GROCER
Sarah Butterworth 44
Ellen Butterworth 19
James Butterworth 16<<<<<SHUTTLE MAKER
William Butterworth 14
Sarah Butterworth 11
John Butterworth 9
Alfred Butterworth 5
Ann Butterworth 6
Robert Fletcher 17


1871 England Census about James Butterworth
Name: James Butterworth
Age: 27
Estimated birth year: abt 1844
Relation: Son
Father's Name: James Butterworth
Mother's name: Sarah Butterworth
Gender: Male
Where born: Rochdale, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Castleton
Ecclesiastical parish: Rockdale
Town: Rochdale
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Rochdale
Sub-registration district: Castleton Nearer
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Household schedule number: 287
Piece: 4119
Folio: 28
Page Number: 50
Household Members:
Name Age
James Butterworth 58 NOW A CLOTHES DEALER
Sarah Butterworth 56
Ellen Butterworth 28
James Butterworth 27******************SHUTTLE MAKER
William Butterworth 24
Sarah Butterworth 21
John Butterworth 19
Ann Butterworth 17
Alfred Butterworth 14

Same address 71 Drake Street.

The poster seems to have posted his thanks and asked another question on success stories

Oh well :-S

Edit- Mel the poster marked your post as answered, also you stretched the page by adding all those !!!!

Jax have deleted those !!!

Just had another message from Phil when I got back from the dentists, had a tooth out and have three stitches :-(

here's the message.

Hi Mel,
Many thanks for the help so far, I now have death certs for Sarah 1928,
James 1888, and Lillie 1901 but the marriage of James & Sarah will, I feel, evade me for years to come. In the 1881 census they were married and he is the father of the first 4 daughters. In 1872 she would have been 15 years old so they must have married between those two dates, if indeed they did marry !!! But I can find no record of such. One day maybe.
my thanks for all who have offered help so far Phil Ellis

Phil

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