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Right, hold onto your hats, this is a bit complicated! Any suggestions would be much appreciated, thank you in advance.

I have a person on the census below whose precise origins I have never tried to trace until now, namely William Street.

1851 England Census

Name: Wm Street
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841
Relation: Grandson
Where born: Birmm, Warwickshire, England
Registration district: Birmingham
Sub-registration district: St Peter

James Eccleston 66
Ann Eccleston 67
Wm Street 10
John Summers 12 (lodger)
Cristopher Harris 34
Sarah Harris 39
John Harris 5
Emma Harris 3


The following marriage is definitely that of James and Ann's daughter Eliza, so I have worked on the theory that they are William Street's parents:

Birmingham, England, Marriages and Banns
Name: Eliza Ecclestone
Marriage Date: 28 Jul 1840
Marriage Place: Aston, St Peter and St Paul, Warwickshire, England
Spouse: James Street
Spouse Marriage Age: Minor
Father: James Ecclestone
Spouse's Father: James Street

I cannot find this couple in either 1841 or 1851. However, I did vaguely wonder if this might be Eliza and son William 1841, living with her parents (his grandparents). The address is that which Eliza gives on her marriage cert.


1841 England Census
Name: William Banner
Age: 6 Mo
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840
Gender: Male
Where born: Warwickshire, England

Civil Parish: Aston
Hundred: Birmingham
County/Island: Warwickshire

Registration district: Aston
Sub-registration district: Duddeston and Nechells

James Eccloston 55
Ann Eccloston 55
William Eccloston 15
Eliza Banner 20
William Banner 6 Mo
John Somers 3

I know it doesn't make sense on the face of it! 'Why would they be called Banner?' I hear you cry.

I have tried to locate James Street, likewise no joy. He was a glassblower (father the same) so if he turns up it will be easy to confirm.

Need someone to think outside the box please!

Thank you,

Jan

John Somers aged 3 would be the lodger in the 1851 census

Why Banner...ummmm

Jax, I agree. I have found his baptism, address same as the Ecclestons 1841, mother unmarried Ann Summers (yes, really). No relation as far as I know.
Thanks for replying, hope you aren't tearing your hair out!
Jan

I have a couple like this in my tree....get married, have a child never to be seen again...child is left with grandparents

There is a James Street on the 1871 census as a boarder with an Elizabeth Lee 51 a widow and Lavinia Lee 25. This James is a clerk BUT one of the witnesses on the marriage to Eliza was an Ann Lee?????

It's just a thought...........

He is the Minor on the marriage cert and she is full age.



1871 England Census about James Street
Name: James Street
Age: 52
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1819
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Stoneleigh, Warwickshire, England
Civil Parish: Holy Trinity
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mark
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England
Registration district: Coventry
Sub-registration district: Holy Trinity
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Household schedule number: 109
Piece: 3182
Folio: 82
Page Number: 23
Household Members:
Name Age
Elizebeth Lee 51 Widow
Lavina G Lee 25**********Unmarried
James Street 52*********unmarried

Another thought?????????????????..........

Here is a James Banner who is unmarried and a Flint Glass Maker.


1851 England Census about James Banner
Name: James Banner
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1822
Relation: Visitor
Gender: Male
Where born: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

Civil Parish: Eccleston
Town: St Helen
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Registration district: Prescot
Sub-registration district: St Helens
ED, institution, or vessel: 1a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 74
Piece: 2195
Folio: 16
Page Number: 24
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Saxon 33
Mary Saxon 32
Mary A Saxon 6
George Saxon 40
James Banner 29****************************


1861 England Census about James Banner
Name: James Banner
Age: 38
Estimated Birth Year: 1823
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Louisa Banner
Gender: Male
Where born: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

Civil Parish: Southwark St George
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:GLASS BLOWER****************************

Condition as to marriage:MARRIED


Registration district: St George Southwark
Sub-registration district: London Road
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 192
Piece: 334
Folio: 18
Page Number: 39
Household Members:
Name Age
James Banner 38
Louisa Banner 27 BORN kENT
Harriet Banner 3
Ann P Banner 2
Sarah Banner 8/12


1881 England Census about James Banner
Name: James Banner
Age: 60
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Prisella Banner
Gender: Male
Where born: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Civil Parish: Southwark St George Martyr
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 201 Waterloo Rd
Marital Status: Married
Education:

Occupation: Glass Blower
Registration district: St Saviour Southwark
Sub-registration district: London Road
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 530
Folio: 122
Page Number: 14
Household Members:
Name Age
James Banner 60 ******Glass Blower************
Prisella Banner 47

James Banners parents were Harriet STREET and so if he was called James Street Banner perhaps the person writing the marriage lines did'nt hear his surname????????


Birmingham, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1937 about James Banner
Name: James Banner
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 27 Aug 1821
Marriage Place: Handsworth, St Mary, England
Spouse: Harriette Street*************
Spouse Gender: Female
Reference Number: DRO 86/28
Archive Roll: Reel 3

I think James was born before the marriage of James and Harriet Street.

Firstly, I might have to agree with you jax!

mel, thanks very much for the above - I don't know what you think, but i am inclined to dismiss the Coventry census. I suspect Ann Lee might be Eliza's sister, simply because there is an Ann Eccleston/William Lee marriage in Aston which might be her.

The other census are really intriguing, especially given the Banner name. If they aren't connected it is a major co-incidence. Might he have been a serial bigamist I wonder!

Thanks SO much for coming up with these finds, I'm going to nip off and look a bit closer.

Much appreciated.

Jan

Mel, just saw your last entry - you are an absolute star! Definitely cracked it.
Can't thank you enough, would never have sorted this by myself.
jan x

Unbelievably, I had come across this couple but dismissed them!! Just looked for banners in same area. Son John looks like a glass maker? So must be the right family, I am sure of it:

The address might be that on the marriage cert of James and Eliza, not quite sure though.

1841 England Census
Name: Harriet Banner
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1801
Gender: Female
Where born: Warwickshire, England

Civil Parish: Aston
Hundred: Birmingham
County/Island: Warwickshire

Registration district: Aston
Sub-registration district: Duddeston and Nechells

James Banner 40
Harriet Banner 40
John Banner 15
Henry Banner 15
Thomas Banner 14
George Banner 9
Benjamen Banner 6
Alfred Banner 4
Edwin Banner 1 4 Mo

James senior on the 1851 is a widower and a Teaser in a Glass House?


1851 England Census about James Banner
Name: James Banner
Age: 49
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1802
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

Civil Parish: Aston
Ecclesiastical parish: St Matthew
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Registration district: Aston
Sub-registration district: Duddeston
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 8
Piece: 2061
Folio: 325
Page Number: 2
Household Members:
Name Age
James Banner 49
Benjamin Banner 16
Alfred Banner 14
Edwin Banner 10
Joseph Banner 6
Emma Manox 19


Birmingham, England, Burials, 1813-1964 about James Banner
Name: James Banner
Birth Year: abt 1801
Burial Date: 25 Jan 1852
Burial Place: Aston, St Peter and St Paul, Warwickshire, England
Burial Age: 51
Reference Number: DRO 41
Archive Roll: M94

Address Colman St same as the 1851 census.

Birmingham, England, Baptisms, 1813-1912 about James Street
Name: James Street************************
Birth Date: 25 Apr 1820
Baptism Date: 1 Jan 1821
Baptism Place: Birmingham, St Martin, Warwickshire, England
Mother: Harriet Street********************SINGLE WOMEN*********
Reference Number: DRO 34/12
Archive Roll: M100

Thanks again Mel.

What do you think ... ?

1871 England Census

Name: James Bowmer GLASS BLOWER
Age: 49
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1822
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Isabella Bowmer
Gender: Male
Where born: Birmingham
Civil Parish: St George
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: St Saviour Southwark
Sub-registration district: London Road

James Bowmer 49
Isabella Bowmer 39
Sarah Bowmer 9

OOOOoooooooo could be I'll go and have a look. :-D

I can't find a marriage for James Banner and Louisa but Louisa died young.

Born on 14th Feb 1861. Same day as my birthday!!!!!!!!!!!!quite a few years later though!

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906 about Sarah Banner
Name: Sarah Banner
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 3 Jun 1861
Father's Name: James Banner********Glass Blower
Mother's name: Louisa Banner
Parish or Poor Law Union: Southwark St Saviour
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Registers

That rally is a co-incidence isn't it!

I am not sure he married any of these women except for Eliza. There are actually a couple of trees for him on Ancestry - as James Banner - I am not sure they know of Eliza Eccleston/James Street!

Jan

Tired now...........................

Me too.
Thanks so much for your help, quite a story you have unearthed!
Nighty-night, have a good rest, you deserve it.
Jan x

Yes I have just seen those.

I can't find a marriage for him to a Pricilla either.

Think he died in 1881. I looked for a probate but did'nt find one.