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My appoligies Shirley/Reggie,I did not check the image.

I have made correction to my post.

Still learning :-D

Always learning :-D

Suex

She did NOT marry Anthony's father..................please take note of the info you have been given about his BIRTH

And please take note of ALL of the info........and the advice.........especially about getting a COPY OF THE MARRIAGE CERT

I am quite overwhelmed by your really kind efforts to help me unravel the Elizabeth's birth, and the "Scragg" Strange"(indeed) story. You have now given me enough to spend more of my own time, as suggested, in following up the useful records and observations that you have come up with; particularly yours MarieCeleste, which will help me to pursue James (Jim) Scragg in the hope that it will lead me (or not) to what we have always assumed was Elizabeth's first marriage.
With renewed thanks, I will get on with that over the next couple of days.
You all do a great job. Keep up the good work.
Jon

In case it's useful, here's Tony Scragg's obit:

United States Obituary Collection
Name of Deceased: Anthony James Tony Scragg
Gender: Male
Age at Death: 80
Death Date: 2 Mar 2012
Death Place: Bellingham, Washington, USA
Obituary Date: 6 Mar 2012
Newspaper Location: Bellingham, Washington, USA
Birth Date: 12 Apr 1931
Birth Place: Cardiff, Wales
Residence (at time of death): Bellingham, Washington, USA
Spouse's Name:
Parents' Names: Jim Scragg [Betty Fisher Scragg]
Childrens' Names:
Military: Royal Navy

(I've taken out wife and children's names for their privacy).

If Jon doesn't have it, I can send him the full obit, which has a photo.

If Betty had been legally married to Jim Scragg then I wouldn't expect her to marry in the name of Fisher in 1938.

Do you know when and where Gertrude died? Could Sidney have remarried? and have you found him on the 1911 census?

Marriages Sep 1913 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fisher Sidney Leary W.Ham 4a 908

Just going back to the 1911 for David Fisher. There is NO Morris Fisher on that census - he is Morris BRAIN (Always look at the image !!!)

His occupation is gentleman and he worked in the chocolate industry. yum.

Children of the 1921 marriage of Sydney G Fisher

Births Mar 1924 (>99%)
Fisher Janet E Gostling Tendring 4a 1314

Births Jun 1927 (>99%)
Fisher John G Gostling Tendring 4a 1277

You MUST get a copy of the marriage cert for Emily Gertrude and Sydney if you wish to have an accurate family tree


The man in that marriage did not give a second forename........................

Jon, the Sydney George Fisher whose birth details you quote, appears to be living with his parents as a single man in 1911.

Do you have Sydney and Gertrude's marriage cert? This will name his father and either confirm or deny whether you have the right Sydney.

What is your evidence that Sydney was at Deepcut in 1909? Is that from the marriage cert? If so, please can you give us all the details from it?

The other possibility is that Elizabeth was not the natural child of David's parents

If you're guessing now at the woman's birth based on the death info posted, that one didn't die till 2005

If, as you say, you met Elizabeth...............where was she living?

If Anthony's parents had been married, the birth would not have been registered with both surnames.

If Charlotte was an older sister, the birth for Elizabeth would include MMN on the index.

As has been demonstrated, no such birth is recorded. Check freebmd yourself..................

And, as you have 'marked as answered', can we assume that you require no further help

This was my first post and I have been stunned by the unbelievably fast responses and all your kind attention. I am also grateful for the revelation and details of Elizabeth's marriage to Ernest S Strange in 1938, but remain puzzled that there is still no trace of her birth even though I now know this is believed to be 19/9/12. I already have full details of the birth of David and his marriage to my Mother Ivy, nee Robson on 14/101933, and confirm that Sydney was born in Walthamstow in March 1887- March quarter 1887 West Ham 4a 267 and in Census of 5/4/1891. In 1909 he was in Royal Artillery, Deepcut. Yes Margee, my Dad's mother was Gertrude.
Sorry Glitter Baby I do not have Anthony's 1931 B/C details. He died in the USA but he was born in Cardiff and known as Tony Scragg, which suggests that Elizabeth was married to her first husband at the time.
Reggie and Shirley, many thanks. I think that Elizabeth died around 1975 as a 'Strange'. Charlotte by the way (or Lottie) was Elizabeth's older sister.
Renewed thanks to all. I will carry on tracing Elizabeth , whom I met several times by the way, but, even so, regrettably can add nothing to the above.

We NEED feedback from the OP

Still no luck with Elizabeth!

Think Shirley has the correct birth; 1891 census gives Gertrude's POB as Croft Durham:


1891 England Census
Gertrude Conning
Age:5
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1886
Relation:Daughter
Father's Name:William Conning
Mother's name:Charlotte Conning
Where born:Croft, Durham, England
Civil Parish:Bilton with Harrogate
Ecclesiastical parish:Christchurch
Town:Harrogate


The image for the 1885 birth IS Emily Gertrude, not Ethel. Wrong transcription on freebmd and Ancestry but as these records on Ancestry are taken from freebmd, not surprising. Will do a correction on freebmd.

Quite possible..............

Can't see a death for her under either name!

Perhaps Jon will return at some stage, and answer our questions

Not seeing a birth for an Emily Gertrude though so wondered if she was Ethel not Emily

Image is definitely Ernest S - always check the image!