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I have the birth and marriage certificate of my great great grandfather John Henry Spencer
He was born 22nd March 1870, registered in Worksop
and married Elizabeth Heaps 12th December 1892, registered Doncaster

For some reason I keep hitting a brick wall with this family

His parents were Charles Spencer & Elizabeth Jepson Iv found them on the 1871, 1881, 1891, 1901 census but I cannot find a marriage for them, The family lived in tickhill for as long as anyone can remember
Would just like a second pair of eyes to see if i'm missing the obvious
thank you
Sarah

For info.......

1871 England Census about Charles Spencer
Name:Charles Spencer
Age:24
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1847
Relation:Head
Spouse's Name:Elizabeth Spencer
Gender:Male
Where born:Carlton in Lindrick, Nottinghamshire, England
Civil Parish:Carlton in Linrick
Town:North Carlton
County/Island:Nottinghamshire
Country:England
Registration district:Worksop
Sub-registration district:Carlton


Household Members:

Charles Spencer 24
Elizabeth Spencer 23
Mary Helen Spencer 3
John H Spencer 1

I can't find a marriage.

The 1911 states........married 43 years.

There are 3 trees on Ancestry......they don't have a Spencer/Jepson marriage either.

umm well at least i'm not being silly and missing something obvious lol

Thank you for looking

I'v not been able to find Elizabeth Heaps birth either, according to the marriage certificate her father was Alfred and the census' say she was born Codner, Derbyshire

England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 about Elizabeth Heaps
Name: Elizabeth Heaps
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 26 Oct 1873
Baptism Place: Codnor and Loscoe,Derby,England
Father: Alfred Heaps
Mother: Ellen
FHL Film Number: 1042035

1881 England Census about Elizabeth Heaps
Name: Elizabeth Heaps
Age: 6
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875
Relationship to Head: Daughter
Father: Alfred Heaps
Mother: Elleen Heaps
Gender: Female
Where born: Codnor, Derbyshire, England
Civil Parish: Tickhill
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Street address: West Gate Caravan
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Occupation: Scholar
Registration district: Doncaster
Sub-registration district: Tickhill
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4685
Folio: 39
Page Number: 14
Household Members:
Name Age
Alfred Heaps 42
Elleen Heaps 41
Henry Heaps 14
Alfred Heaps 12
Samuel Heaps 10
Lena Heaps 8
Elizabeth Heaps 6
Frank Heaps 4
Harriet Heaps 3
Ellen Heaps 1

1911 England Census about Ellen Heaps
Name:Ellen Heaps
Age in 1911:73
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1838
Relation to Head:Head
Gender:Female
Birth Place:Hiacoln Honth>>>>>[Louth, Lincoln]
Civil Parish:Tickhill
County/Island:Yorkshire-West Riding
Country:England
Street address:Pufold Lane Tickhill
Marital Status:Widowed
Occupation:Dealer Dpots>>>[Dealer in Pots]
Registration district:Doncaster
Sub-registration district:Tickhill

Household Members:

Ellen Heaps 73
Jannel Heaps 38 >>>>Samuel (Single)
Fourk Heaps 34>>>>>>Frank (Married)
Annie Heaps 24 (Daughter in Law)
Arthur Heaps 2 (Grandson)

thank you for this information, sometimes think I go blind looking for info, especially if it's a person iv struggled with
:-)

I have gone boggle eyed with my own research today Sarah.

It happens to us all!! ;-)

Prickles. x

Was Elizabeth Jepson born Jepson please?


1861


Name: Elizabeth Jepson
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: 1849
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: George Jepson
Mother's name: Emma Jepson
Gender: Female
Where born: Anston, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Worksop
County/Island: Nottinghamshire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View image
Registration district: Worksop
Sub-registration district: Worksop
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 49
Piece: 2418
Folio: 38
Page Number: 10
Household Members:
Name Age
George Jepson 30
Emma Jepson 37
Elizabeth Jepson 12
Mary Jepson 5
George Jepson 3
Emma Jepson 1

7 years between Elizabeth and Emma so was wondering if George was her stepfather?



Name: George Jepson
Registration Year: 1859
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: Worksop
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County: Nottinghamshire
Volume: 7b
Page: 56
Records on Page:
Name
Cennementer Heaps <<<<
George Jepson
William Mellors
Mary Stephenson

There are two Elizabeth's

Elizabeth Jepson was the mother in law of Elizabeth Heaps!

I don't have either of their births yet and only the marriage certificate of Elizabeth Heaps and John Henry Spencer stating that Alfred Heaps is her father

:-)

would any body be able to look how many children John Henry and Elizabeth Heaps had please
in the 1911 census it says she has had 9 children and 5 are alive my great grandmother Violet wasn't born till 1914 so I know she hadn't stopped :-)
Also the 1911 census says Olive may is older than the marriage but it does say Heaps on my great grandmothers birth certificate

Thank you again

OK


Have I got this correct?


Elizabeth Heaps married John Henry Spencer

John Henry Spencer was the son of Charles Spencer and Elizabeth Jepson .......... but you have never found that marriage

You have never found Elizabeth Jepson's birth ........ allegedly in Codnor, Derbyshire (census), father Alfred (marriage certificate)


Maddie found that birth register entry for you

Maddie Report 25 Sep 2014 17:57


England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 about Elizabeth Heaps
Name: Elizabeth Heaps
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 26 Oct 1873
Baptism Place: Codnor and Loscoe,Derby,England
Father: Alfred Heaps
Mother: Ellen
FHL Film Number: 1042035



PH is suggesting that her research seems to indicate that Elizabeth Jepson who married Charles Spencer was born Elizabeth Heaps, daughter of Emma Heaps who married George Jepson in 1859 .................. 10 years after Elizabeth was born

The children of John and Elizabeth Spencer will show after 1911 as Spencer/Heaps births, as on free bmd, surely? (Which is what Violet appears as)

If they married in 1892, and Olive May is 13 in 1911, how does that mean she was born before the marriage?

This looks like Alfred Heaps in 1851

Name: Alfred Heaps
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836
Relation: Grandson
Mother's name: Cinamat Heaps
Gender: Male
Where born: N
Civil Parish: Carlton in Lindrick
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Nottinghamshire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability:

View image
Registration district: Worksop
Sub-registration district: Worksop
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 118
Piece: 2122
Folio: 292
Page Number: 35
Household Members:
Name Age
Lucy Heaps 61 says about 61 on image
Cinamat Heaps 50
Alfred Heaps 15
Henry Heaps 13
John Heaps 12
Coliah Heaps 11
Deliah Heaps 9


Under occupation, it states for all of them "Gypsies living in Tents". Birthplace for all of them N. K.

Wonder if Cinamat in 1851 is actually Lucy's daughter in law? This looks like Alfred's parents marriage.


Text: John Heaps, chair-bottomer, & Cinementi Boswell 22 Sep 1828
Book: Derby all Saints' Marriages, 1813--1837. (Marriage)
Collection: Derbyshire: - Registers of Marriages, 1558-1837a

Sorry busy few days and then not been well :-(

think I was tiered read it as they'd only been married 10 years!

I'm seeing my dad tomorrow so will have to talk to him, no mention of gypsies on this side of the family had ever come up but i'd never asked either, it's might be something that when I mention to my grandma she then remembers

Thank you

Can anybody see them on the 1901 census, i'm struggling again, think i'm going to fall out with this family lol

and also Alfred Heaps in 1871!

This one?

1871


Name: Alfred Heaps
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ellen Heaps
Gender: Male
Where born: Snelston, Derbyshire, England
Civil Parish: Longdon
Town: Longdon
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Registration district: Lichfield
Sub-registration district: Rugeley
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Household schedule number: 79
Piece: 2918
Folio: 84
Page Number: 12
Household Members:
Name Age
Alfred Heaps 35
Ellen Heaps 30
Jane Heaps 13
Mary Ann Heaps 11
Eliza Heaps 10
Emma Heaps 8
Henry Heaps 4
Alfred Heaps 3
Selena Heaps 2