Find Ancestors

Via http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/immigration/Pages/introduction.aspx

Title: Ocean Arrivals, Form 30A, 1919-1924
Mikan Number: 161349
Microform: t-15048
Page 1109 of 5095
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/microform/data2/dm10/d10/006003/t-15048/jpg/30927_2000901378-01109.jpg
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/microform/data2/dm10/d10/006003/t-15048/jpg/30927_2000901378-01108.jpg [essentially blank]

The nominal census date was 1/6/1921, so he missed it as he arrived 12/7/1921 (see Margee's post above)

Thank you mgnv, especially for the document he signed which I shall take a copy of.

The first group of naturalisation records did not reveal his name. The second group is in year and month form and covers 1945 to 1951. I shall go through them month by month to see if he was naturalised during that period.

AnnCardiff, thank you. I have seen your post on the other thread and it confirms the information I have.

I decided to look at Wm Jnr's spouse

Anyone can search 1921 and get images, transcriptions for free, but only via:
http://search.ancestry.ca/search/db.aspx?dbid=8991
[Don't let Ancestry bounce you to another of their sites]

Name: Flora England
Gender: Female
Marital Status: Single
Age: 22
Birth Year: abt 1899
Birth Place: Ontario
Relation to Head of House: Sister
Father Birth Place: England
Mother's name: Mary England
Mother Birth Place: England
Racial or Tribal Origin: English
Province or Territory: Ontario
District: Toronto North
District Number: 132
Sub-District: Ward 2
Sub-District Number: 11
City, Town or Village: Toronto North (ward 2)
Street or Township: 246 St Clair
Occupation: Packer
Income: 338
Household Members:
Name Age
Alfred England 20
Mary England 69
Flora England 22


1911 Census of Canada
Home / 1911 / Ontario / York South / 11 East York / page 29
26 278 England George Leaside Rd M Head M Jun 1841 69 01
27 278 England Mary Ann F Wife M Jun 1851 60 01
28 278 England Alfred M Son S May 1900 11 01
29 278 England Florra F Daughter S Mar 1897 14 01
30 278 England David M Son S Mar 1895 16
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1911/pdf/e002038500.pdf
[immig said to be 1876]

1901 Census of Canada Page Information
District: ON YORK (East/Est) (#129)
Subdistrict: North Toronto (Town/Ville) D-1 Page 12
Details: Schedule 1 Microfilm T-6506
1 105 England George M Head M Jun 8 1845 55
2 105 England Mary F Wife M Jun 14 1854 46
3 105 England Mary F Daughter S Jan 27 1878 23
4 105 England Laura F Daughter S Aug 27 1882 18
5 105 England Sarah F Daughter S Jun 10 1888 12
6 105 England Flora F Daughter S Jan 7 1895 6
7 105 England Alfred M Son S Dec 18 1899 1
http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/1901/z/z003/pdf/z000117065.pdf
Sched 2 http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/1901/z/z003/pdf/z000117053.pdf
[Page 12 Line 1; addy = Eglinton Ave (just E of Yonge St)]

1891 http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1891/pdf/30953_148154-00306.pdf
1881 http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/e/e328/e008183508.pdf

Marriages Dec 1872 (>99%)
>>Allison Mary Ann Walsingham 4b 791
DICKERSON William Walsingham 4b 791
>>England George Edward Walsingham 4b 791
Harrold Esther Ann Walsingham 4b 791
HEEWELL Esther Ann Walsingham 4b 791
http://tinyurl.com/hbjgsxa

Births Mar 1873 (>99%)
ENGLAND George Edward Walsingham 4b 298

Given Name(s): Mary
Surname: ENGLAND
Age: 30
Ship: CASPIAN
Port of Arrival: Quebec, Quebec
Date of Arrival: 1874/06/29
Year of Arrival: 1874
Microfilm Reel Number: C-4528
Reference: RG 76
Item Number: 221150
http://data2.archives.ca/e/e142/e003535933.jpg
[Mary travels with hubby Geo, her son, her mum & 2 bros]

1871 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VFXC-QRV
HOUSEHOLD ROLE GENDER AGE BIRTHPLACE
Edward Allison Head M 47 Field Dalling, Norfolk
Catherine A Allison Wife F 49 Field Dalling, Norfolk
William Allison Son M 11 Field Dalling, Norfolk
Dennis Allison Son M 8 Field Dalling, Norfolk
Catherine A Allison Daughter F 4 Field Dalling, Norfolk

Here's Geo's in-laws in 1881:
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/e/e328/e008192298.pdf

I'[m not sure whose naturalization you're looking for, but I suppose you know that until the formation of the commonwealth in the late 1940s, the only citizenship the local courts in Canada, S Africa & Oz could award was British citizenship.

Hi mgnv, I was looking to see if William Robert had been naturalized but I was unaware about the British Citizenship until the late--1940s. Records online from 1944 to 1951 are not alphabetical but I'll not need to search the earlier ones, thank goodness.

I am so curious to find out what happened to him because going there on his own at 17 he must have had to be a strong character. He may have been a bit wild like his aunt, my great-grandmother , and his father may have decided to ship him out. My mind's in active gear now.

I pm'ed the 1921 image to JL and in her reply, she queried the addy.

I'll reply here - I make out the addy as 243 St Clair E - the East bit isn't in the image, but it must be E as there's a cross street of Inglewood on the image a couple of times.
I think 246 is between Clifton & Mt Pleasant - it's on the N side of the street. Toronto evens are N or W.

Maybe this'll show it (but I can't really work the maps):
http://tinyurl.com/ngqvluz

500m N on Mt Plesant gets me to the cemetery.
1km W on St Clair gets me to Yonge St, then N 200m to Heath gets me opposite Christ Church Deer Park, which is where I think Flo & Geo wed Nov 1926 it was prob'ly nicer than Feb 2007:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ccdp/5198441112/

Posted on the other thread (without the URL for the pic) is:
http://www.canadianheadstones.com/on/view.php?id=156230
Flora Lavinia GUEST
Mount Pleasant+, Toronto Cemetery
York (incl. Toronto) Co./Reg./Dist., Ontario
Guest
In Loving Memory of
Flora Lavinia England
Jan. 7, 1895 - July 30, 1970
Beloved Wife of
William Robert Guest
At Rest

My presumption is the headstone was erected by Wm.
Ontario has a closure on B/M/Ds of 97/82/0 y, but there can be a delay in getting these online - e.g., Ancestry has marrs thru 1928, although 1932 is available.
Also, although d.certs are a public record, there is no index published for them until they're 70y old, so you pretty much have to know when they died or the search fees are a killer.

Flo's bro & his wife are buried in Mt Pleasant:
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=105943875
Alfred England
Birth: 1899
Death: 1968
Family links:
Spouse:
Martha Hayward England (1896 - 1986)
Burial:
Mount Pleasant Cemetery
Toronto
Toronto Municipality
Ontario, Canada

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=105943889
Martha Hayward England
Birth: 1896
Death: 1986
[Martha E Hayward was a witness to the marr of Wm + Flo
Use the image link on
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKMR-7G2S ]

Here's some marrs for Flo's sibs:
Geo https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KZBQ-2M2
Thos https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KZBH-8K9
Mary https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KZBN-PQN
Wm https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KZBR-MX6
Sarah https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KSZV-3NB
Laura https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KSZG-VQM

Thank you mgnv. I had already googled St Clair and the Mount Pleasant Cemetery as well as the address they both lived in at the date of their wedding, so had an inkling of the layout.

I am pleased that you have told me that the Deer Park Christ Church is likely to be the marriage place as I had come across two Christ Churches and was unsure which one would be the likely one.

Like you, I think that William must have had the gravestone erected and, to me, it looks as though the photo of it shows intent of another name to be engraved on it, presumably William's. As it's left blank It's wonder whether he's there but nobody had the engraving done or whether he moved on elsewhere after his wife's death.

The search goes on and, again, many thanks for your help.

Although the other Christ Church burned down in 2007, its graveyard remains:

Christ Church Mimico Cemetery
Also known as: Christ Church Anglican Cemetery
329 Royal York Rd.
Etobicoke
Toronto Municipality
Ontario Canada
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=cr&CRid=2237768

Etobicoke is in Metro Toronto, but it's W of the City of Toronto, and the graveyard is abt 10km from Flo's 1921 addy.

Incidentally, in the 19th cent, the Anglican Church was called the Church of England in Canada, but they changed their name sometime in the 20th cent, but I couldn't guess any more precisely than that .

Thanks again mgnv. Here the Church of England is also known as the Anglican Church too and its cathedrals as Anglican Cathedrals. Whichever version people used, others would know it was one and the same (or they ought to know, I should say).

I had another great aunt who worked for many years in Toronto - Alice Robinson. She never married and died some time in the 1970s/1980s I believe (not sure because I had moved thousands of miles away when she died) in Willowdale where she had retired to. She was in the in-law side to William Robert.

I'm going to take a look at the site you have given me above, thank you.

JoyL ..............

I'm not sure whether he would have bothered taking out naturalization .....................

Until some time in the 1970s, British citizens had all full rights in Canada. We had every right to vote in all elections, we didn't have to go through Citizenship Court or answer any questions if we did decide to apply for Canadian Citizenship.

We arrived in 1968, and most of Canada was unbelievably British ........... it became a game to find out if there was any Canadian at the table when you went to someone's house for dinner. It was very common that there would be one born Canadian at the table, all the rest would be immigrants from elsewhere, and most of them had not bothered to change nationalities.

Then Pierre Elliot Trudeau, father of our new PM, announced that the law would be changed and no-one who did not have Canadian citizenship would be allowed to vote in Federal elections.

We applied for Canadian citizenship in December 1973 .......

....... went to the Federal Office downtown, were ushered into an open-plan office with all the accompanying noise, met a rather bored clerk, who asked to see our documents (birth certificates, marriage certificate), took our money ............... and then reached down into the bottom drawer of her desk and pulled out a Bible.

She put that on the corner of the desk and told us in turn to put a hand on the Bible and swear allegiance to the Queen


and that was it!


We wanted to be able to vote and have a say in how this country developed .................. your William would have been able to do all that.


I'm still glad of the fact that my Citizenship Certificate is dated 10 days before my daughter was born in March 1974 .............. it took that long for mine to go through.

OH's is dated about 3 weeks before mine ....... that irked me a little, as I had written the two cheques we had to hand over, and I was a bit of a feminist in claiming my rights :-D.

Sylvia, I think you could be right.

I'm not sure that William Robert would have bothered being naturalized when he needed to be, in order to vote. His death is a mystery to me and it would not surprise me if he'd taken himself off somewhere after his wife's death. On this side of my Gran's family all the men worked away from home, 99% were seafarers of one sort or another, and William's father was an African Agent so travelled back and forth a lot.

The search continues.

(just to add below snippet, no idea if already posted!)

Chris :)

26 September 1917 (Wednesday) - Liverpool Daily Post - Liverpool, Merseyside,

Silver Wedding
Guest - Buchanan - September 26th, 1892, at St. Luke's Church, Southport, by the Rev. John Blew. William Robert Guest to Kathleen Buchanan (both of Liverpool)

William wouldn't have to do anything to become a Canadian citizen.
He could just go to bed on New Year's Eve 1946, and wake up in 1947 as a Canadian citizen.

Citizenship Act 1946 [effective 1/1/1947]
Section 9.1.b A person, other than a natural-born Canadian citizen, is a Canadian citizen, if he
immediately before the commencement of this Act was a British subject who had Canadian domicile
Sect 26 A Canadian citizen is a British subject.
http://historyofrights.ca/wp-content/uploads/statutes/CN_Citizenship.pdf

A major extension of Canadian citizenship was triggered by confederation with Newfoundland although the Newfoundland Act 1949 [effective 1/4/1949] just says
43. Suitable provision will be made for the extension of the Canadian citizenship laws to the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador.
[Newfoundland also took a step to protect its native cuisine:
46. (1) Oleomargarine or margarine may be manufactured or sold in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador after the date of the Union and the Parliament of Canada shall not prohibit or restrict such manufacture or sale except at the request of the Legislature of the Province of Newfoundland, but nothing in this Term shall affect the power of the Parliament of Canada to require compliance with standards of quality applicable throughout Canada.]
http://www.solon.org/Constitutions/Canada/English/nfa.html

Shortly thereafter, Newfoundland citizens acquired Canadian citizenship under much the same conditions that other Canadians did.

As an irrelevant aside, you might know Edward VIII only reigned in 1936, from 20/1/36 until his abdication 11/12/36. So the Citizenship Act 1946 was passed in the 10th year of George VI's reign.
The Act is headed 10 George VI - the 10 is a regnal year and refers to when the parliament passing the act was in session.


Like Sylvia, I am a naturalized Canadian, but my citizenship interview was quite difft - mine was in 1979, but I don't think that was the cause.
The citizenship judge read thru my application, saw I had a PhD, and said I was his first PhD, then he asked me two really tough questions:
Do you have to be registered in order to vote?
[The correct answer at that time was "it depends"]
*I* had to be registered to vote, but, in general, it depended on whether your home was. Ridings were classed as urban or rural, and you needed to be on the electoral roll to vote in an urban riding, but you could vote in a rural riding without being on the roll if you swore an affidavit.
The second question was easy at first:
Who appoints the govenor-general? - The queen, on the advice of the prime minister.
The follow up's the killer: Does she have to take his advice?
I think the answer's no, but it's not clear-cut.
[Actually saying "no" would no doubt provoke a constitutional crisis, like the Oz Governor-General's dismissal of their PM, or the charmingly named King-Byng whing-ding Canadian crisis]

As regards my citizenship, I don't think it really mattered whether or not I got the answers right.

That's lovely info to have so thanks Chris Ho. :-)

I have dual citizenship and have done for years now. I used to have two passports but one is now out of date and I have not updated it. I remember the dismissal of the prime minister very well indeed.

You've given me a lot of information that I was unaware of, mgnv, so thank you. I find the fact that eligibility to vote sometimes depended on whether your home was registered intriguing and open to contention because of the possibility of one person possibly being able to cast two votes which occurred in the not-too-distant past in one country at least. I now know more about Canada's electoral system.

Although the Queen takes the advice of the governor-general, if she chose not to, I think she'd be able to back her decision up with some piece of legislation no matter how obscure or how old it may be. Also, if one of her grandchildren was appointed governor-general I should think he'd follow the advice of his grandmother. I suspect that the reality is that she'll always act on the advice of the gg because she'll rock the boat in commonwealth countries at her peril.

mgnv .............

I think there were changes made between 1973 and 1979, because there was never any suggestion that we should go before a Citizenship Judge ................

We did actually think that we were having an initial interview with that bored clerk, and that she would give us a date to go before a Judge after verifying all our documents, which included proving landing immigrant status, OH's education status (same as yours) and occupation.

We were not asked any questions on our knowledge of Canadian life

We were more than a little amazed when she got that Bible out of her desk drawer!

About 5 years later, a close friend decided to take out Canadian citizenship, and he was offered the alternative of taking the citizenship test and going before a Citizenship Judge or not .............. he decided to do that as he wanted to know what was in the "book". There was some quite obscure information in there, that could be asked about, before your application was approved. It's still the same, or so I've heard.


We "gave up" our English citizenship by simply not renewing our passports after 1974, and have claimed only Canadian citizenship since then.