Find Ancestors

I'm helping a student of mine (born 1980s) and he has very little info on his ancestors.

Of course he has his parents details but tracing his fathers ancestors is proving difficult.

He knows that this is his G Grandmother but tracing her and her husband is very trying, can't seem to find a marriage for this lady.

This death is registered four times!


Name:Rene Faust De Frece

Birth Date:1 Jun 1901

Date of Registration:Oct 1995

Age at Death:94

Registration district:Blackpool and Fylde

Inferred County:Lancashire

Register Number:KL11A

District and Subdistrict:5813

Entry Number:66


Any help, much appreciated - thank you

One of this lady's children was presumably your friend's grandparent. I think he needs to get a birth certificate to find out the parents' exact names.
What are the names of the lady's children?

I'm wondering if the surname is actually de Vries, a common enough Dutch name.

Possible?


Surname First name(s) Spouse District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Mar 1927 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cowan Rene M Faust Liverpool 8b 350
FAUST Maurice MOTT-COWAN Liverpool 8b 350
Mott-Cowan Rene Faust Liverpool 8b 350


Andy

Good find!

So is this his death

Deaths Mar 1964
FAUST MAURICE 66 MANCHESTER 10E 444

and did she marry again?

Bev, I can't find a birth for my students grandfather, don't want to add his supposed name here as he is still living and in his 80's

Andy, that looks good, thank you

Will PM what he thinks is his grandfathers name

But if she was born 1901 she would 63 when the hubby died so wouldn't the mum of any Faust de Frece children surely ??


So the son who in his eighties. Does he have his birth cert to see what his mums maiden name was

I'm getting confused here.
This lady died as a de Frece.
If Andrew's marriage is correct, her maiden name was Mott-Cowan and she married a Faust.
I can't find any marriage between a Faust and a Frece (or any of the million possible variations in spelling).

Shirley I think the lady is the great-grandmother, not the grandmother.

That's right Bev, Rene Faust De Frece is the Great Grandmother

Thanks Shirley, it is confusing!

Maybe ????

If not, I think he must have been born abroad. I can't see any other birth of a Maurice (or similar) Faust in 1898.

Morris Faust
in the England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
Name: Morris Faust
Registration Year: 1898
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration district: West Derby
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 535


I can't see him in 1901 or 1911 censuses.

One of the other death records for Renee.
Does this mean her grave gives her name as Faust, and not De Frece?

Rene Faust
in the UK and Ireland, Find A Grave Index, 1300s-Current
Name: Rene Faust
Birth Date: 1901
Death Date: 24 Oct 1995
Cemetery: Lytham Park Cemetery and Crematorium
Burial or Cremation Place: Lytham Saint Annes, Fylde Borough, Lancashire, England
Has Bio?: N
URL: http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-...

Is this her as well, with a different date of death??


Rene De-Frece
in the UK and Ireland, Find A Grave Index, 1300s-Current
Name: Rene De-Frece
Birth Date: 1901
Death Date: 3 Nov 1995
Cemetery: Lytham Park Cemetery and Crematorium
Burial or Cremation Place: Lytham Saint Annes, Fylde Borough, Lancashire, England
Has Bio?: N
URL: http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-...

Or maybe the death was in October, and the burial in November ??

If your student's grandfather is 80+, then he was born in the 1930's, or between 1827 and 1830. and presumably his surname is Faust.

There's a male Faust born 1932, but mms is Faust.
In 1940 there's a male Faust with mms Cohen - but then he would only be 75 now.

Sorry, no help.

Ag

I just don't know but it looks likely

Right, bear with me for this.

Here is Morris Faust in 1901.


1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
13, Mount Vernon Road, West Derby, Lancashire, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Samuel Faust Head Married Male 35 1866 Tailor Manchester, Lancashire, England
Transcription
Rachel Faust Wife Married Female 31 1870 - Scotland
Transcription
Bertha Faust Daughter - Female 11 1890 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Transcription
Morris Faust Son - Male 3 1898 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Transcription
- Needman Visitor Widow Female 68 1833 - Germany
Transcription
- English Visitor Married Female 28 1873 - Canada



Parents marriage.

Name: Samuel Faust
Registration Year: 1889
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: Toxteth Park
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 499
Records on Page:
Name
>>Samuel Faust
>>Rachel Freedman
Emilie Grant
John Isaac Somers




I was looking for a Rene Mott-Cowan but could only find this man.

Name: Maurice Herbert Mott-cowan
Birth Date: 16 Jan 1903
Date of Registration: Mar 1970
Age at Death: 67
Registration district: Liverpool
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 10d
Page: 914


He married a Sadie Levy in 1931.


I couldn't find him in a census but wonder if this may be him.



1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
113 Park Road Liverpool, Toxteth Park, Lancashire, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Occupation Age Birth year Birth place
Marks Cohen Head Married Male Tailor Maker 35 1876 Liverpool Lancashire
Transcription
Morris Cohen Brother Married Male Tailor Maker 41 1870 Liverpool Lancashire
Transcription
Maud Cohen Wife Married Female - 30 1881 London Part Not Known
Transcription
Rachel Cohen Daughter - Female - 9 1902 Liverpool Lancashire
Transcription
>>Maurice Herbert Cohen Son - Male - 8 1903 Liverpool Lancashire
Transcription
Esther Cohen Daughter - Female - 4 1907 Liverpool Lancashire
Transcription
Katie Garbett Servant Single Female General Servant Domestic 18 1893 Liverpool Lancashire


I wonder if Rachel is perhaps Rene?




Birth for him?

Name: Maurice Herbert Cohen
Birth: Jan 1903 - Toxteth Park, Lancashire


Anyway this is his parents in 1901.




1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
107, North Hill Street, Toxteth Park, Lancashire, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Mark Cohen Head Married Male 24 1877 Commercial Traveller (Clothing) Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Transcription
Maud Cohen Wife Married Female 19 1882 - London, Middlesex, England
Transcription
>>>Lily de Frece Visitor Single Female 15 1886 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England

And Marks' marriage.


England & Wales marriages 1837-2008 Transcription
Print transcription View image Attach to tree
First name(s) MARKS
Last name COHEN
Marriage quarter 3
Marriage year 1900
Registration month -
MarriageFinder™ MARKS COHEN married one of these people
SARAH CASH, >>MAUD DE FRECR<<
District LIVERPOOL
District number -
County Lancashire
Country England
Volume 8B
Page 351

In fact, there is a tree on ancestry with this family on. It has photos of Marks and Maud.

Hart Family Tree



Marks Mott-Cowan
Birth 1876 in Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Death 31 Jan 1943 in Liverpool, Lancashire, England

PARENTS


Joseph Israel Cohen
1847 – 1912

Miriam Barnett
1843 – 1915


SPOUSE



Maude De Frece
Birth Jun 1878 in London, London, Middlesex, England
Death 11 Jun 1955 in Fylde, Lancashire, England



PARENTS


Jacob De Frece
1844 –

Julia Hyman
1849 – 1922

Another tree, Nugent/Baines/Myers/Cohen Family Tree has this for Rachel.



Rachel Mott-Cohen
Birth 1902 in Liverpool, Lancashire, , England
Death



Marriage to Maurice Faust
1927 Age: 25
Liverpool, Lancashire, , England

Divorce from Maurice Faust
no date available yet

Using http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/
Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1900
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
COHEN * Marks DE-FRECE Maude Liverpool, Hope Place Synagogue Liverpool J12/3/45
COHEN * Marks DE-TRACE Maud Liverpool, Hope Place Synagogue Liverpool J12/3/45
[Presumably, the transcriber had difficulties reading the register]

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1889
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
FAUST Samuel FREEDMAN Rachel Liverpool Old Hebrew Congregation Liverpool J4/1/153

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1927
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
FAUST Maurice MOTT-COWAN Rene Liverpool Old Hebrew Congregation Liverpool J4/5/87

1881 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XQ6N-S6H
Joseph Cohen Head M 35 Poland
Mary Cohen Wife F 37 Poland
Eliza Cohen Daughter F 15 Lpool, Lancashire, England
Morris Cohen Son M 13 Lpool, Lancashire, England
David Cohen Son M 10 Lpool, Lancashire, England
Esther Cohen Daughter F 7 Lpool, Lancashire, England
Mark Cohen Son M 4 Lpool, Lancashire, England
Richard Cohen Son M 2 Lpool, Lancashire, England

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1877
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
COHEN Joseph BERNARD Mary Liverpool Old Hebrew Congregation Liverpool J4/1/36

Births Jun 1873 (>99%)
Cohen Esther Liverpool 8b 88
Births Mar 1874 (>99%)
Cohen Esther Liverpool 8b 192
Births Jun 1874 (>99%)
Cohen Esther Liverpool 8b 132

Births Jun 1877 (>99%)
Cohen Marks Liverpool 8b 136

1881 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X32H-5R8
Jacob De Frece Head M 35 London City, London, Middlesex, England
Julia De Frece Wife F 30 London, London, Middlesex, England
Philip De Frece Son M 6 London, London, Middlesex, England
Benjamin De Frece Son M 4 London City, London, Middlesex, England
Jenny De Frece Daughter F 3 London City, London, Middlesex, England
Maud De Frece Daughter F 2 London, London, Middlesex, England
Lawrence De Frece Son M 0 London City, London, Middlesex, England
Annie Verrier Servant F 19 Taunton, Somerset, England
Amelia Nicholson Servant F 25 London St George In The E, London, Middlesex, England
Montague Hyman Boarder M 24 London Finsbury, London, Middlesex, England

Marriages Sep 1872 (>99%)
Barnett Alexander London C 1c 206
De Frece Jacob London C. 1c 206
Hyman Julia London C. 1c 206
Jacobs Isabella London C. 1c 206

Births Dec 1877 (>99%)
DE FRECE _an_ London C. 1c 16

Births Mar 1879 (>99%)
De Frece Miriam London C. 1c 14

Births Jun 1881 (>99%)
DE FRECE Lawrence Abraham London C. 1c 12


1871 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VRJ8-55C
Morrice Hyman Self M 45 Lambeth, Surrey
Jane Hyman Wife F 45 St Giles, Middlesex
Julia Hyman Daughter F 21 St Luke's, Middlesex
John Hyman Son M 19 St Luke's, Middlesex
Philip Hyman Son M 17 St Luke's, Middlesex
Montague Hyman Son M 15 St Luke's, Middlesex
Rachel Hyman Daughter F 13 St Leonards Shoreditch, Middlesex
Samuel Hyman Son M 8 Shoreditch, Middlesex
Benjamin Hyman Son M 6 Shoreditch, Middlesex
Joseph Hyman Son M 4 Shoreditch, Middlesex
Mary Dolye Servant F 18 Stepney, Middlesex
Fanny Townsend Servant F 19 Burbage, Wiltshire

Marriages Dec 1845 (>99%)
ANGEL Jane St James 1 131
Davis Sarah St James 1 131
Hyman Morrice St James 1 131
JACOBS Joseph St James 1 131



1871 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VBDD-Z99
Abraham De Frece Self M 69 Holland
Mary De Frece Wife F 64 Spitalfields, Holland
Esther De Frece Daughter F 27 Spitalfields, Middlesex
Jacob De Frece Son M 24 Spitalfields, Middlesex
Matilda Brooker Servant F 17 Wales

Births Sep 1843 (>99%)
DEFRIES Esther East London 2 179

I don't see a likely marr, so maybe they wed in Holland.

Thanks to you all

I need to sift through all this lovely info that you have found

Has I missed the birth for Jhn Morris/Maurice De F*, son of Rene Faust De Frece. He was born around 1930ish

He is still living so any info on him would be great, by PM please

Thank you all so much :-)

Added: Just read a text message from last night. Jhn M De* birth date is Feb