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Assuming Margaret's dob is correct, legally she wouldn't be allowed to marry until she was 16. That would be 19 Feb 1948.

There are no marriages of an Ernest Hoyle to a Margaret with the correct mmn after then.
The alternative was that they married outside of England and Wales or, that matter, may never have married!

Who brought Ann up? If a relative, it might be possible to work from their name. If she was brought up in care, has she accessed her file? That may have additional info to work with

With her dad until he passed she was still young when he did but she cant even remember how old im thinking 10-15 as she was 7 when the mum died

then into care we believe shes blocked alot out of her child hood

I wonder if stories have been muddled somewhere? I think Det is right, you really need Ann's birth certificate to continue.

However, there is an article in the Burnley Express, but it is dated 1951, so a long time before Ann was born, but it is regarding a crash- a head on collision between a taxi and a van. The van driver died and there were several other people injured, including a Miss Margaret Hartley, who was taken to hospital and was stated to be 'comfortable'.

Burnley Express - Wednesday 26 December 1951

There are two possible older siblings for Ann, born in Burnley, coincidentally the eldest is ERNEST, also a sister Margaret.

I wonder if this is where Ann got the name Ernest in her head?

Yes those are the correct siblings which is why she said children was called that afterthe parents ernest now deceased Margaret has dementia im intrigued about that article can you send me the link. As she thought her mum passed away due to this when she was young but 1951 was over ten years before she was even born

The newspapers on this site only seem to run to 1949. I found the article on the British Newspaper Archive:

http://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/

Margaret's address on the article is 74 Oak Street, Colne


Just looking at the James Hoyle Margaret Hartley marriage- it was in 1959, but Ann's siblings were born before this in 1957 and 1958. So it may not be the correct couple. Ann definitely needs her birth certificate!

thank you il have a look and see what i can find

Right all had a stoke of luck and found Anns BC..... Mother Margaret Wadsworth formally Hartley father Ernest HOYLE. so looks like Margaret was married before and also wasnt married to Ernest so im thinking maybe she passed a Wadsworth ?

what im confused with is all the children born to Margaret MN Hartley appear with surname Wadsworth and same ref nums as with surname Hoyle is this normal?

Now i cant find a wadsworth hoyle marriage but yet the hoyle death ties in unless she changed her name via deedpole cant find a margaret wadsworth death agrhhhhhh :-S

It certainly looks as if Margaret & Ernest were not married - that is why the children's registrations appear twice in the index, under Hoyle & Wadsworth.

Ok as far as im aware only 3 of the children were a Hoyle which means two was the first husbands. But its the death she died when Ann was around 5-7 only death is that fits is a Margaret Hoyle but yet no marriage

Well done folks! Finding Ann's BC was a stroke of luck. It does throw Margaret's death reg into doubt now.

Well, there is Wadsworth/Margaret Hartley marriage in Nelson (next door to Burnley), but Margaret is also shown as Pickles:

Marriages Jun 1949
Wadsworth Richard J Hartley Nelson 10e 1276

Marriages Jun 1949
Wadsworth Richard J Pickles Nelson 10e 1276

I wonder if this could be Margaret's birth - would explain the surnames on the 1949 marriage:

Births Mar 1932 (>99%)
Pickles Margaret Hartley Burnley 8e 296

Hmmm i found that marriage but i didnt see anything about surname pickles im confused now what could this mean?

ahh yes the entry appears twice one next to Hartley one pickles does this mean her parents was unmarried so she appears twice like the wadsworth hoyle children

The death for Margaret HOYLE mmn Hartley could be right though as the ages tie in along with the birth as its stated as feb 1932 could she of changed the name via deedpole or been known as HOYLE there for it was registered as HOYLE i dont know