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(lol, say no more!, probably adorned with those fluttering green leaves, they call hints)

Chris :)

well, it was on a Public Family Tree :-D

Well done there Sylvia, poor Harriet then.

Chris :)

Yes, a lot of Saffery on below, Norfolk. Kings Lynn, Upwell.

http://www.freereg.org.uk/

(and looks to be Marriage on FMP 1816 Norwich, Norfolk, Thomas Meadows Saffery, Mary Emson 24th April)


Edits (Harriet Death 1851, not sure on that, think perhaps somebody is muddled!)

Burial
County Norfolk
Place Norwich
Church name St Giles
Register type Parish Register
Register entry number 595
Burial date 28 Apr 1851
Person age 74
Burial person forename Harriett
Burial person surname SAFFERY
Burial person abode St Stephen's
Register note Spinster

IF Chris is correct with the baptism of Harriett Saffery, this could be Harriett Saffery with her family in 1841 ...... remember ages for everyone 15 and over were rounded down to the nearest 5. However a Public Family Tree says Harriet daughter of Thomas died April quart 1851, and there is a death registered in Norwich for a person of that name at that time!

NOTE:- Census is badly damaged

1841 Census

Name: Harriett Saffery
Age: 15
Estimated birth year: abt 1826
Gender: Female
Where born: Norfolk, England
Civil Parish: St Margaret
Hundred: Freebridge Lynn
County/Island: Norfolk
Country: England

Registration district: Kings Lynn
Sub-registration district: Kings Lynn South

Piece: 786
Book: 11
Folio: 34
Page Number: 30

Thomas Saffery 45 b.ca 1796, Norfolk, Labourer
Mary Saffery 45 b.ca 1796, Norfolk
John Saffery 15 Glazier
Harriett Saffery 15
Thomas Saffery 13
Susan Saffery 11
William Seffen 9
Seffen 6
Seffen 3
Seffen 45
Barker 35
Barker 33
Jane English 60
Harriet Hood 7


The "Seffens" are actually Saffery ..... they're on the next page. I cannot read the occupation for the last "Seffen" age 45 ...... it could be Milliner or Miller!

The last 4, I think, are in different houses.

I throw this one in for what it's worth

1871 Census

Name: Henry Rumble
Age: 60
Estimated birth year: abt 1811
Relation: Visitor
Where born: Marylebone, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: St James Westminster
Ecclesiastical parish: St Luke
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Westminster
Sub-registration district: Berwick Street
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Household schedule number: 15
Piece: 142
Folio: 48
Page Number: 2

Josephine Osborn 45 Widow, Cleaner at Theatre
Henry Rumble 60 (no marital status shown) Labourer at Theatre

Address:- 26 Borwick St

it looks as though the address is divided up into lots of rooms

:-) Chris ................ we all do that at times. No apology eeded!


Henry and Joseph in 1851 ???????????

1851 Census

Name: Henry Rumbell
Age: 40
Estimated birth year: abt 1811
Relation: Son
Father's name: Joseph Rumbell
Gender: Male
Where born: London, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: St Pancras
Ecclesiastical parish: Regents Park
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Registration district: Pancras
Sub-registration district: Regents Park
ED, institution, or vessel: 06

Household schedule number: 521
Piece: 1493
Folio: 199
Page Number: 3

Joseph Rumbell 64 b.ca 1787, Bulford, Wiltshire, Married, Pie Maker
Henry Rumbell 40 Widower, Pie Maker

Address:- 2 Henry Street

????

Deaths Dec 1845 (>99%)
RUMBLE Harriet Shoreditch 2 325


London, England, Church of England Deaths and Burials, 1813-1980

Name: Harriet Rumbold
Record Type: Burial
Age: 22
Estimated birth year: abt 1823
Death Date: abt 1845
Burial Date: 25 Nov 1845
Burial Place: St Leonard, Shoreditch, England
Parish or Poor Law Union: St Leonard, Shoreditch
Borough: Hackney
Register Type: Parish Register

from image:-
Address:- Kingsland Road

It does look more like Rumbell on the image

(lol, and I owe you an apology!, added Eliza Baptism this morning, read through again, and see you already had. Ancestry and FMP offers on at moment I think, they must have been busy last night, although leaving to watch 'Long Lost Family' programme, I went orf' the boil a bit!)

Will see what George thinks, Henry 1844 Marriage address looks to match that 1844 Burial, although age out!.

(and where are Henry/Harriet 1851, her Father named as Thomas, looking round at things, below perhaps her, bit of an unusual surname)

Baptism
County Norfolk
Place Upwell
Church name St Peter
Register type Transcript
Register entry number 1194
Baptism date 14 Dec 1823
Person forename Harriet
Father forename Thomas
Father surname SAFFERY
Father occupation Labourer
Mother forename Mary

http://www.freereg.org.uk/

Chris :)

Chris ..........

you're welcome!

sometimes there advantages in being on in the wee hours for the UK people :-D

Marriages Dec 1844 (>99%)
RUMBLE Henry Clerkenwell 3 71
Saffery Harriet Clerkenwell 3 71

(not sure if you have above?. On London, Ancestry, 19th Dec., occ. for Henry, Pastry Cook. Abode, 67 St John Street. Father, Joseph Rumble, occ. Pastry Cook)

Chris :)

(just to add, 1838 St. Clement Danes Henry Turnpenny Marriage on Find My Past. Would say that was Carey Street)

Thankyou Sylvia, think Ancestry have offer deals or something on, not sure but couldn't get to see image!.

(below 1844 was one I found posted earlier, relating to 67John Street, but age is out, unless 1841 not right)

Yvonne added 1845 one, so George choice is yours, although might be some others you need to search using variants!.

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

(use above)


Black Bull yes, apologies I was looking at previous image, Little Bell!, always worth a 'google' search to check things.

Chris :)


Deaths Mar 1844 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------
RUMBLE Hester W London 2 213

(covers St. Sepulchre, as 1841, if her, perhaps not looking at below!)


All London, England, Church of England Deaths and Burials, 1813-1980 (Ancestry)
Hester Rumble

abt 1774 10 Mar 1844 St Sepulchre, Holborn City of London Burial

I don't remember seeing Eliza in previous posts


All England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 results for Rumb*L*

Sarah Rumble born 29 Dec 1811 bapt. 26 Jan 1812 Saint Mary-St Marylebone Road, St Marylebone, London, England Joseph, Esther

Mary Ann Rumbold born 19 Jul 1804 bapt. 20 Apr 1806 Saint Mary-St Marylebone Road, St Marylebone, London, England Joseph, Hester

Eliza Rumbell born 11 Nov 1807 bapt. 31 Jan 1808 Saint Mary-St Marylebone Road, St Marylebone, London, England Joseph, Esther

Henry Rumbold born 8 Mar 1806 bapt. 20 Apr 1806 Saint Mary-St Marylebone Road, St Marylebone, London, England Joseph, Hester

as posted by Chris

London, England, Church of England Deaths and Burials, 1813-1980

Name: Esther Rumble
Record Type: Burial
Age: 52
Estimated birth year: abt 1793
Death Date: abt 1845
Burial Date: 13 Dec 1845
Burial Place: St James, Pentonville, England
Parish or Poor Law Union: St James, Pentonville
Borough: Islington
Register Type: Parish Register


from image ...........

Address:- Claremont Place, St Pancras


Address for Joseph and Esther on the 1841 is St John Street, St Sepulchre, Finsbury

I believe that the address of Black Bull applies ONLY to the Morgan Family, despite the indication "do".

Now I am confused Chris Ho. The Black Bull was where Joseph and Esther were living according to 1841 Census. What reference should I be using for ordering a death certificate. Thanks.
George

Thank you for that Greyghost

(bit late now!, just to add, that Burial 1844, gives Abode, as 67 St. John Street, as 1841)

Mentioned in OP is Black Bull, not sure where that was seen, previous page on Census has Little Bell)

http://pubshistory.com/LondonPubs/StSepulchre/LittleBell.shtml

(Little Bell, 17 St John Street, West Smithfield, St Sepulchre
Address formerly 78 St John Street)

(apologies!, just seen)

http://pubshistory.com/LondonPubs/StSepulchre/BlackBull.shtml

Chris :)

England, Pallot's Marriage Index, 1780-1837 (Ancestry)

(has Hester and Jas. on above also, says both of M.E.O.T. (Mile End Old Town)


Esther Rumble
abt 1793 13 Dec 1845 St James, Pentonville Islington Burial

(can't see Burial image for above at moment, expect Ancestry is busy!)

malyon ...............


ages for people over the age of 15 are almost always rounded DOWN to the nearest 5. Occasionally, the enumerators ignored the instruction, but you can always tell because the age then does not end in 0 or 5!


so, yes, in that sense, the year 1791 is "wrong", but we all know to make allowance for that.

You search on later censuses by putting birth year +/-5 if the only birth year you have is from the 1841.

1841 census ages were meant to be rounded down to the nearest 5 - therefore, Esher could have been 54 in 1841, making her born1786/7 and so c17 in 1803

The death certificate should give an age - but it's only as good as the informant knows.

Yes good point Maylon. If 1844 death reference for Hester noted by Chris is correct. Would this give me information regards to her birth year etc...

Wow. Thank you so much Sylvialn for your diligence...

were their ages wrong in the 1841 census born 1791 would be 12yrs in 1803