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My husband's Grandmother Charlotte Harriet Green is a bit of an unknown as she is on the 1881 census with the family Green, but I have never found a Charlotte/Harriet Green born in Portsmouth b1876, or her first sibling Mary either. Her parents on the census did not marry until 1879. My mother-in-law had a suspicion that she had been adopted from what she had remembered her mother telling stories of her life to her. I found the 1939 census and her date of birth was given as 10 Feb 1876 and the only Charlotte Harriet born in that year in the Portsmouth was a Charlotte Harriet Cox. I ordered the birth certificate and found that Charlotte Harriet Cox was born on this day too. Then tracing the census' I was amazed as Charlotte is still with the Cox family in 1881 and all the census' until her death just before the 1939 census. How can there be no Charlotte (Harriet) Green and yet the two Charlotte Harriet's births are the same.

I am now very confused to where to try next. Any advice would be very gratefully received.

Chris Stephens

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Welcome to the boards Chris

Is this the family on the 1881 census?

2, Albert Place, Portsea, Portsea Island, Hampshire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Charles Green Head Married Male 43 1838 Stoker R N Worcester, Worcestershire, England
Emma Green Wife Married Female 40 1841 - Portsmouth, Hampshire, England
William Cripps Son Single Male 14 1867 Grocers Porter Portsmouth, Hampshire, England
Edward Cripps Son Single Male 10 1871 Scholar Portsmouth, Hampshire, England
Charlotte Green Daughter Single Female 6 1875 Scholar Portsmouth, Hampshire, England
Mary Green Daughter Single Female 3 1878 - Portsmouth, Hampshire, England
Emma Green Daughter Single Female 1 1880 - Portsmouth, Hampshire, England

And is this the marriage you refer to?

England & Wales marriages 1837-2008 Transcription

First name(s) CHARLES
Last name GREEN
Marriage quarter 2
Marriage year 1879
Registration month -
MarriageFinder™ CHARLES GREEN married one of these people
EMMA JANE CRIPPS, ANNIE MARGARET DEERYING
District PORTSEA ISLAND
District number -
County Hampshire
Country England
Volume 2B
Page 817
Record set England & Wales marriages 1837-2008
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Marriages & divorces
Collections from Great Britain

Can you give the 1881 census details please so we can see the other members of the family?

EDIT - thanks greyghost.

Kath. x

??
England & Wales births 1837-2006 Transcription

First name(s) MARY
Last name GREEN
Birth year 1878
Birth quarter 2
Registration month -
Mother's last name -
District PORTSEA ISLAND
County Hampshire
Country England
Volume 2B
Page 463
Record set England & Wales births 1837-2006

Checking out the image of the 1876 birth registration.........there actually is no *Charlotte Harriet Cox" on there!

Births Mar 1876 (>99%)
Cox Charlotte Harriet Portsea 2b 517

If someone else would like to check it on Ancestry, you will see what i mean.

So this may be Emma in 1871 with her previous/first husband. William is a Seaman RN

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Hampshire Street, Portsea, Portsea Island, Hampshire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
William Cripps Head - Male 24 1847 - Hampshire, England
Emma Cripps Wife - Female 26 1845 - Hampshire, England
Ellen Cripps Daughter - Female 7 1864 - Hampshire, England
William Cripps Son - Male 4 1867 - Hampshire, England
Fanny Cripps Daughter - Female 1 1870 - Hampshire, England

There is a Charlotte Harriet Cox birth on the 1876 image on Findmypast.

Kath. x :-S

You also have to remember that around this time, although penalties came in in 1875 for not registering a birth, many people still did not comply with the rules so the birth may not have been registered at all.

Kath. x

Yes i just checked it out on FMP Kath..........and she appears on that one.

How very odd!

England & Wales marriages 1837-2008 Transcription

First name(s) WILLIAM
Last name CRIPPS
Marriage quarter 1
Marriage year 1866
Registration month -
MarriageFinder™ WILLIAM CRIPPS married one of these people
MARY A COUSINS, EMMA EYRES
District PORTSEA ISLAND
District number -
County Hampshire
Country England
Volume 2B
Page 544

-----------------------------------
England Marriages 1538-1973 Transcription

First name(s) William
Last name Cripps
Name note -
Age 20
Marriage year 1866
Marriage date 13 Mar 1866
Marriage place Portsea
Spouse's first name(s) Emma
Spouse's last name Eyers
Spouse's age 22
Spouse's birth year 1844
Spouse's birth date 1844
County Hampshire
Country England

Hi Christine

Did the details from the birth cert you purchased for Charlotte Harriet Cox.......fit with the parents on the 1881 census?

CHARLES GREEN and EMMA JANE CRIPPS ..... or different parents?

Charlotte Harriet Cox is on tha image on FreeBMD. Also didn't Chris say that she had sent for that birth certificate?

Think it's a birth for a Charlotte (Harriet) Green that can't be found.

If Charlotte was born pre the marriage of Charles and Emma, there is a "choice" for her birth surname.

Green - if Charles and Emma said they were married when the birth was registered or if he was present at the registration and admitted paternity.

Cripps - if that was Emma's given surname at the time of the birth. Children were presumed to be the child of the husband even if he had died years before!

Or anything else that was dreamt up !!

The maiden surname of the Mother on the birth certificate should be the maiden name but is sometimes mistakenly given as a previous name.

Prickles, on Ancestry the birth for Charlotte Harriet Cox is the Jan/Feb/March quarter but when you click on the image it gives you the April/May/June quarter.

Ok, thanks Margaret.

:-)

Greyghost, you have found the family in 1881 and the marriages of her "parents" and the mothers previous marriage.

I have searched for the birth of a Charlotte or Harriet with surnames of Eyers and Cripps for the mothers maiden name and previous married name.

Her sister Mary I have checked out and there is only 1 in Portsea from 1877 and 1879 and I ordered that birth certificate and the parents do not fit to anyone in the family.

The mother of Charlotte Harriet Cox was Maria Cox who had 5 children with no marriage, charlotte being the last child. In 1881 she stated her name was Smith and so were her children, although 1871 she was Cox and the children were all registered as Cox. In 1891 she states she is Smith and is a widow, the children are again Smith. I have never found a marriage and she is living on her own means. From being an only parent, she died with over £500. Her children seemed to choose Cox or Smith as their surname in later life.

A real puzzler I think.

(no idea if they relates, but saw below!)

Chris :)

13 March 1890 - Portsmouth Evening News - Portsmouth, Hampshire

DEATHS.
Green - on the 3rd instant, Abercrombie-street, Landport, Emma, wife of Mr. Charles Green, aged 50 years.


Deaths Mar 1890 (>99%)
----------------------------------------------
Green Emma 50 Portsea 2b 335


05 March 1890 - Portsmouth Evening News - Portsmouth, Hampshire

PORTSMOUTH POLICE COURT.
Charge against a Landlady. - Maria Cox, the keeper of the Duke of Edinburgh beerhouse, in Queen-street, Portsea, was summoned for having been intoxicated upon her own premises.


23 April 1890 - Portsmouth Evening News - Portsmouth, Hampshire

PORTSMOUTH POLICE COURT.
Maria Cox, the keeper the Duke of Edinburgh, Queen street, Portsea, was summoned for selling Lquor at twenty minutes before midnight, on the 9th inst.


Edits (1881, at Duke, below)

73, Queen Street, Portsea, Portsea Island, Hampshire

Emma A Creber Head Widow Female 38 1843 Beer Retailer Torquay, Devon, England


03 August 1881 - Portsmouth Evening News - Portsmouth, Hampshire

WANTED for a Beerhouse, respectable person as General Servant, age about 25. Mrs. Creber, Duke of Edinburgh, Queen-street, Portsea.

Yes, Emma died in 1890.

Your Portsmouth Evening News article about Maria Cox is priceless. Maria was living in 29 King Street as a Lodging House Keeper up until 1891 when she had moved to London with the children only to return before 1901.