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Yes my grandmother was Mary Sinclair married in Cockermouth in 1924! Altho without a divorce cert I guess this was invalid. My Brooke cousins will be very interested in your findings. Thanks very much. I wish I had your research skills.
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I hope it helps. You have a fascinating family- far more interesting than mine!
You probably have all the information on your Gran- what a tough life she had; losing a brother so young, her mother's suicide and, the death of 2 children. She must have been a tough cookie. If you need any help with the Sinclairs just shout.
Oh, and just to note- Mary was still listed as married in 1939
1939
Sinclair Household (4 People) 25 Parton Street , West Hartlepool C.B., Durham, England
James Sinclair 13 Feb 1870 Male Shipyard Labourer Married
Georgina Sinclair 17 Oct 1876 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married Mary (E) Brooke (Robinson) 02 Oct 1902 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married
James Brooke 23 Jan 1928 Male At School Single
One closed record
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So Mary married again too
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Hi AustinQ, Albert certainly made the family tree interesting. Although she was still listed as married in 39 , Albert had already moved on to Ellen Pocock, by the time Mary's fourth child was born. Dad said her mum committed suicide because she was in enormous pain from an ulcerous leg that she used to clean every day with lye! She didnt fully know then what the National Health Service was about to be able to do for her??! Thanks for offers with help on the Sinclairs but I have been lucky with them...because they were from Shetland I have managed to go back a fair way with them and again have been incontact with new rellies. Albert's Harrises and my mums McKinley/Mackinlays are in the frame at the moment as there is confusion around them both but I will keep plugging away with the help I have been given here.
Thanks very much for all the stuff you found about the incorrigible Albert????
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S - re 8:11 30/10/16 post:
"The wedding ref ..again, can I ask if these are local records and if they will differ from the gro."
Yes - these are the local registrations - they will not differ from the GRO copy, although the local index must differ from the GRO index, if only in the ref.
The indexes can differ in content - e.g., a b.cert has a col 10 which allows a change of name (typically after baptism) - note, the law requires that a birth be rego'ed, not that a child be named, so you can get things like:
Births Sep 1837 (>99%)
CLEWORTH Female Leigh 21 347
Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1837
Surname Forename(s) Mother's Maiden Name Sub-District Registers At Reference
CLEWORTH Sarah MARSH Culcheth Wigan & Leigh CUL/1/2
The index was made at a difft time, so the later addition of a forename nappears in the local index but not the GRO index.
B's & D's have to give the subdistrict, maybe in a coded form (CUL - here decoded as Culceth) and they also chose to give the mum's maiden surname pre-1911q3.
They might also choose to give the age at death pre-1866.
The 2nd element of the ref indicates this is the 1st Culceth rego (a local b/d rego has 500 entries and 100 pages).
The last element is either a page number or an entry number (it's entry in this subdistrict).
It often is the page number, except for marrs, where it's nearly always entry #, so one knows who wed whom pre-1912.
The local rego is the one signed by the informant for Bs & Ds, but most local registery offices lack the capability of putting digitized images on official certs.
(Both Irelands will sell the raw "uncertified" images at a reduced rate, as does Scotland (for its older images).
Marrs are a bit difft - here authorized keepers of rego's (which pre-1898 was just the established church, jews and quakers, plus the registrars) held the original official marr rego's.
When full and checked, the church rego's are deposited in some archive, typically the county records office.
Each quarter, the authorized keeper of a church rego sends a copy of that quarter's marrs to the local registrar who keeps a copy of all the official church rego's in his district.
The registrar sends a copy of all the marrs in his district, including marrs in his own rego's, to the GRO.
Pre-1898, a registrar would have to attend a non-conformist marr with his official rego for the couple to sign, but after 1898, non-conformists could apply to become an authorized keeper of an official rego. It might take a couple of years for the congregation to opt to apply, and for the approval process, but by 1905, the only major sect who chose not to apply (until 1980-ish) was the RCs,
Marrs in England/Wales (and Ireland) had to take place in registered buildings - if these were churches, then the church could keep it's own private, unofficial marr rego whose contents might not follow the official form - this was especially true of RCs who latinized forenames.
Here's an example:
Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1838
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
MCCANN George ASPINALL Margaret Wigan, Register Office or Registrar Attended Wigan & Leigh ROW/1/50
and the OPR transcription:
Marriage: 23 Jun 1838 St John RC, Wigan, Lancs.
[unnamed] McCann -
[unnamed] Aspinall -
Groom's Parents: Samuelis McCann, civitatis Wigan & Brigittae
Bride's Parents: Jacobi Aspinall, [of Wigan] & Mariae
Witness: Patricio McArdal, [of Wigan]; Esther Jackson, [of Wigan]
Married by: Hen. Segrave Miss. Apos.
Notes: [Bride's and groom's names not recorded. Here their surnames are taken from
their parents]
Register: Marriages 1837 - 1840, Page 40
Source: Original register at LRO
{NB Jacobi is a Latinized version of James]
An official non-conformist marr entry from an attending registrar's rego will look pretty much like a regular church marr entry, except that the registrar will have signed it.
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If you've got a copy of a marr cert from the GRO, you can tell if it took place in a non-conformist church, and so know where there might be an unofficial marr entry.
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For online local indexes, see: http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/local_bmd
There is an 1890s map of Shetland (and every Scottish county) showing parishes at:
http://www.electricscotland.com/history/gazetteer/
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Dear mgnv, that is great info. Thanks very much for this. I don't think I will ever become an expert researcher, like some of the folks who have helped me, but it is good to know that I can take another look at the registrations and indexes that I have saved and maybe find info that I had previously missed, especially on the ones where I am stuck. Thanks again!
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