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Hi,

I have a census in 1871 of James and Ann Mead. It is very clear in the original that her birthplace was Lamb, Suffolk. I have a probable marriage 14 Oct 1867 in St. Mary, Lambeth with her as Ann Crisp daughter of George. In 1871 they have one child James A. age 9 (also easy to read) born in Westminster. James Mead was a son of Abel which this marriage shows. I have been unable to find any other records, so would appreciate those too.

Marriage

Name: James Mead
Spouse: Ann Crisp
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 14 Oct 1867
Parish: St Mary, Lambeth
Borough: Lambeth
Father Name: Abel Mead
Spouse Father: George Crisp
Register Type: Parish Register

census

Name: James Mead
Age: 38
Estimated birth year: abt 1833
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ann Mead
Gender: Male
Where born: Westminster, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: St John The Evangelist
Ecclesiastical parish: St Stephen
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: St George Hanover Square
Sub-registration district: St John Westminster
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Household schedule number: 45
Piece: 121
Folio: 31
Page Number: 12

Name: Ann Mead
Age: 30
Estimated birth year: abt 1841
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: James Mead
Gender: Female
Where born: Lamb, Suffolk, England
Civil Parish: St John The Evangelist
Ecclesiastical parish: St Stephen
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: St George Hanover Square
Sub-registration district: St John Westminster

Name: James A Mead
Age: 8
Estimated birth year: abt 1863
Relation: Son
Father's name: James Mead
Mother's name: Ann Mead
Gender: Male
Where born: Westminster, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: St John The Evangelist
Ecclesiastical parish: St Stephen
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: St George Hanover Square
Sub-registration district: St John Westminster

original has him as 9

Can James A be their son if he was born in 1863, yet they did not marry until 1867??

?? James in 1861, IF Abel is his father

1861 Census

Name: James Mead
Age: 30
Estimated birth year: 1831
Relation: Son
Father's name: Abel Mead
Mother's name: Rebecca Mead
Gender: Male
Where born: Westminster, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Westminster St Margaret
Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrew
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Registration district: Westminster
Sub-registration district: St Margaret
ED, institution, or vessel: 13

Household schedule number: 319
Piece: 54
Folio: 56
Page Number: 48

Abel Mead 60 b.ca 1801, Northall, Buckinghamshire, Labourer (Bewer's)
Rebecca Mead 55 b.ca 1806, Eaton Bray, Bedfordshire,
James Mead 30 Potman
William Mead 20 b.ca 1841, Westminster, Labourer (Brewer's)
Maria Mead 12 b.ca 1849, Westminster, Scholar
Rowland Adams 24 Lodger
George Worman 20 Lodger

Address:- 16 Castle Lane

Yes, that is the family. His mother Rebecca is the sister of David Rollings. my second great-grandfather.

I meant to mention that he was a bachelor and I have found many families who had children before marriage. So he could be their child or a child of a previous relationship. One of his uncles had two children before marriage by two different women and married his wife three months before their first child. . .

I wonder if she didn't know her father's name
1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Benton Street, Hadleigh, Cosford, Suffolk, England

Learn more

Print transcription View image Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Elizabeth Butcher Head Widow Female 60 1791 Charwoman Raydon, Suffolk, England Transcription
Ann Crisp Visitor - Female 9. 1842. Raydon Suffolk



1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Upper Street, Raydon, Samford, Suffolk, England

Elizabeth Crisp Head Married Female 62 1799 School Mistress Polstead, Suffolk, England Transcription
Ann Crisp Granddaughter Unmarried Female 20 1841 Sempstress Raydon, Suffolk, England Transcription
James Crisp Grandson - Male 1

Or this one with a brother George
1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Lower Street, Raydon, Samford, Suffolk, England
John Crisp Head Unmarried Male 20 1841 Ag Lab Suffolk, England Transcription
George Crisp Brother - Male 17 1844 Ag Lab Raydon, Suffolk, England Transcription
Ann Crisp Sister - Female 18 1843 - Raydon, Suffolk, England Transcription

Does below fit anywhere?...

Chris :)

Suffolk Baptism Index 1538-1911 Transcription (Find My Past)

First name(s) Ann
Last name Crisp
Baptism year 1841
Baptism date 26 Dec 1841
Parish St Mary
Place Raydon
Father's first name(s) -
Mother's first name(s) Asenah
Relationship dau
Residence Raydon
Notes father Henry WOODS of Layer, Ess
County Suffolk

(probably the Layer below)

(Layer de la Haye is a small village near Colchester in Essex)


First name(s) Asenath
Last name Crisp
Baptism year 1820
Baptism date 21 May 1820
Parish St Mary
Place Raydon
Father's first name(s) Josiah
Mother's first name(s) Elizabeth
Father's occupation Thatcher
Relationship dau
Residence Raydon


Suffolk Marriage Index Transcription (Find My Past)

First name(s) Josiah
Last name Crisp
Marriage year 1820
Marriage date 11 Feb 1820
Marriage place Raydon
Spouse's first name(s) Elizabeth
Spouse's last name Grimsey


(there is below?)

Marriages Dec 1864 (>99%)
-----------------------------------------------
Crisp Asenath Islington 1b 370
Flack Thomas Islington 1b 370
Rullmann Elise Islington 1b 370
Simon Heinrich Islington 1b 370

(Thomas Flack, her Father, Josiah, Occ. Bootmaker. Full Age, Spinster. Thomas as, Widower) (on Ancestry, London) * (notes witnesses, Brother Edgar and wife)


Births Dec 1841 (>99%)
-----------------------------------------
Crisp Anne Samford 12 371

(above covers Raydon)

CRISP, ANNE -
GRO Reference: 1841 D Quarter in SAMFORD HUNDRED Volume 12 Page 371


1841
Aseneth Crisp Female 20 1821 (Female Servant. Not born in County)
Hill Farm, Boxted, Lexden & Winstree, Essex
Registration district Lexden & Winstree
Archive reference HO107
Piece number 334
Book number 3
Folio number 23
Page number 15

(also with below there!)

Henry Wood Male 20 1821 Essex, England (Male Servant)


(notes on that 1867 Lambeth Marriage, George Crisp as Deceased)


Don't think I've come across a place' Lamb' Suffolk before...

1861 (Find My Past)
Asneath Crisp Servant Unmarried Female 38 1823 Cook Raydon, Suffolk, England
Linkfield Lane
Parish Reigate Foreign
County Surrey
Parliamentary borough Reigate
Registration district Reigate
Enumeration district 4
Archive reference RG09
Piece number 442
Folio number 65
Page number 8


1871 (Find My Past)
Thomas Flack Head - Male 63 1808 - Middlesex, England (Carpenter)
Asenath Flack Wife - Female 50 1821 - Suffolk (Raydon) England
Street Lillie Road Richmond Place
Parish Fulham
Town Fulham
County London, Middlesex
Registration district Kensington
Archive reference RG10
Piece number 70
Folio 77
Page 49


Deaths Dec 1878 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------
FLACK Asenath 58 Fulham 1a 193


Burial Register summary
FLACK ASENATH
Burial date 16 December 1878
Location Kensington and Chelsea

https://www.deceasedonline.com/


(mother Elizabeth on all Census, Raydon except 1851, Lambeth with Son, Edgar Samuel. 2 marriages for him, Ancestry, London)


Deaths Sep 1878 (>99%)
----------------------------------------------------
CRISP Elizabeth 81 Samford 4a 388

Chris :)


(then as Shirley posted above, also on 1861 was below one!)


Or this one with a brother George
1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Lower Street, Raydon, Samford, Suffolk, England
John Crisp Head Unmarried Male 20 1841 Ag Lab Suffolk, England Transcription
George Crisp Brother - Male 17 1844 Ag Lab Raydon, Suffolk, England Transcription
Ann Crisp Sister - Female 18 1843 - Raydon, Suffolk, England Transcription


(not seeing another Ann Baptism Raydon, did notice below, both done together, if later)


First name(s) Ann
Last name Crisp
Baptism year 1872
Baptism date 05 May 1872
Parish St Mary
Place Raydon
Father's first name(s) John
Mother's first name(s) Harriet
Father's occupation Labourer
Relationship dau
Residence Raydon


First name(s) George
Last name Crisp
Baptism year 1872
Baptism date 05 May 1872
Parish St Mary
Place Raydon
Father's first name(s) John
Mother's first name(s) Harriet
Father's occupation Labourer
Relationship son
Residence Raydon


(looks to be George below perhaps, for 1871)

Marriages Mar 1870 (>99%)
----------------------------------------------------
Coulson Susannah Samford 4a 745
Crisp George Samford 4a 745


Layham...(if mistaken for Lamb)

(these below are on 1851, think Ann on 1861 might have been 10, not 18 perhaps, looking at image)


1851 (Find My Past)
Robert Crisp Head Married Male 45 1806 Baliff Farmers Suffolk, England
Harriett Crisp Wife Married Female 40 1811 - Suffolk (Layham)England
John Crisp Son - Male 10 1841 Ag Lab Suffolk (Layham) England
George Crisp Son - Male 7 1844 - Raydon, Suffolk, England
Jane Crisp Daughter - Female 4 1847 Scholar Raydon, Suffolk, England
Ann Crisp Daughter - Female 0 1851 (9mths) - Raydon, Suffolk, England
Street Lower Street
Parish Raydon
County Suffolk
Registration district Samford
Archive reference HO107
Piece number 1798
Folio 149
Page 19


CRISP, ANN (PORLEY)
GRO Reference: 1850 S Quarter in SAMFORD Volume 12 Page 441


CRISP, GEORGE (PORLEY)
GRO Reference: 1843 S Quarter in SAMFORD HUNDRED Volume 12 Page 398


CRISP, JOHN (PORLEY)
GRO Reference: 1841 M Quarter in COSFORD Volume 12 Page 339


Suffolk Marriage Index Transcription (Find My Past)

First name(s) Robert
Last name Crisp
Marriage year 1830
Marriage date 16 Jan 1830
Marriage place Layham
Spouse's first name(s) Harriet
Spouse's last name Porley
County Suffolk

(not sure why name as John on Baptisms above!, if them)


Death for Robert 1856 (also in newspaper, accident) 1859 Marriage for Hariett/Thomas Hills.


Raydon is a village and civil parish in Suffolk, England. Located around two miles south-east of Hadleigh, it is part of Babergh district. The parish also includes the hamlets of Lower Raydon and The Woodlands.

Layham is a small village and a civil parish in southern Suffolk, England, situated between the town of Hadleigh and the neighbouring village of Raydon.

(above info. from google)

England Marriages 1538-1973 Transcription

First name(s) Abel
Last name Mead
Marriage year 1826
Marriage date 14 Feb 1826
Marriage place Eaton Bray
Spouse's first name(s) Rebecca
Spouse's last name Rawlings
County Bedfordshire


Westminster Baptisms Transcription (Find My Past)

First name(s) James
Last name Mead
Birth year 1840
Baptism year 1840
Baptism date 09 Aug 1840
Father's first name(s) Abel (Occ. Labourer)
Mother's first name(s) Rebecca
Parish St Margaret, Westminster
(Abode, Paradise Row)


(above also on Ancestry, London)

(also William same time)

Chris :)

can't find a birth for james a mead with mother crisp in GRO

There is no such place as 'Lamb' in Suffolk !!

Dea Xxx

Chris posted at 8:56 am

"Layham is a small village and a civil parish in southern Suffolk, England, situated between the town of Hadleigh and the neighbouring village of Raydon."


I wonder if it is possible that Ann said she was born in "Layham", and her Suffolk accent made it sound like "laaam", and the enumerator put down what he THOUGHT she'd said

Lamb

??????

Thank you all,

I think the answer is here, but I'll have to go back and do some diagramming tp be sire which is the real one.

Sylvia, It does seem reasonable that Layham is the original of Lamb.

Shirley and Chris - I really like the one with Ann as a grandau of Elizabeth with child James. I am amazed at how much you both found with what I had to go on. Had given up trying to find without any idea where Lamb was; although I did think James (the child) might have been hers.alone.

Chris - Also thank you for demonstrating that Find My Past has the Westminster baptisms as have James' siblings and cousins with just census info.

I won't mark this answered until I have a chance to really determine if you have found her. Am doing some Belgium for a client so will probably work on this again on Saturday or Sunday. In the meantime, someone may add something more.

I have several others where I seem to be at a dead end. Will be adding one periodically.

Thank you again

P.S.

I haven't found any of the three after 1871 whereas I find his brother John and some of family all the way through 1891. Can anyone find them?

I haven't found them either after the 1871 census

Well the 1851 where Ann is with Elizabeth Butcher, her Grandmother is in Lambeth with Son Edgar Crisp, notes on 1861, living with him is a cousin, Naomi Butcher (1830)...

Those particular Westminster Baptisms, are also on Ancestry, London.


http://www.freereg.org.uk/

(above is usually good for Suffolk, but nothing Raydon/Layham)


Couldn't see James Mead after 1871...

Chris :)

(oh, just to add, notes second marriage 1852 of Edgar Crisp, spouse looks to have connections with the Thomas Cook Hills, that the Hariett Crisp Marries in 1859!, probably all relate!, so perhaps Layham and Raydon would have featured with Ann, don't suppose she was ever told about her mothers 1841 time in Essex, lol (that wasn't too far from Raydon)
She might have stayed with Edgar at some time perhaps, in London, he and wife were witnesses at 1864 Marriage of Asenath!. so perhaps Layham was in her memory, who knows!...)


(and for that Naomi, below)

Suffolk Baptism Index 1538-1911 Transcription (Find My Past)

First name(s) Naomi
Last name Butcher
Baptism year 1830
Baptism date 11 Feb 1830
Parish St Mary
Place Raydon
Father's first name(s) Thomas
Mother's first name(s) Elizabeth
Father's occupation Labourer
Relationship dau
Residence Raydon


Edits (added Maria Mead)

Westminster Baptisms Transcription (Find My Past)

First name(s) Maria
Last name Mead
Birth year 1848
Baptism year 1848
Baptism date 19 Nov 1848
Father's first name(s) Edward (Occ. Brewers Servant)
Mother's first name(s) Rebecca
Parish St Margaret, Westminster
(Abode, Paradise Row)


Marriages Mar 1886 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------
Brigden Thomas John Lambeth 1d 505
MEAD Maria Lambeth 1d 505

(Abel Mead Deceased)

I'm a bit confused as to what is going on, but this is the James from the 1861 census

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Upper Street, Raydon, Samford, Suffolk, England

Elizabeth Crisp Head - Female 74 1797 - Suffolk, England
James Edgar Crisp Great Grandson - Male 11 1860 - Suffolk, England
-----------------------------------------------------------------

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Upper Street, Raydon, Samford, Suffolk, England

Elizabeth Crisp Head Married Female 62 1799 School Mistress Polstead, Suffolk,
Ann Crisp Granddaughter Unmarried Female 20 1841 Sempstress Raydon, Suffolk
James Crisp Grandson - Male 1 1860 - Raydon, Suffolk, England

Lol AQ, yes sort of looks confusing!, but that is the Ann (with her Grandmother) who we think Married James Mead...(Grandmother in Lambeth 1851, with Son Edgar Crisp, and Elizabeth Butcher is looking after Ann then, in Raydon)

Asenath Crisp, being mother of Ann, and Daughter of Elizabeth Crisp, Sister of Edgar Crisp...

Chris :)

(I think!)

Edits (haven't looked at that Grandson James, but presume this is his Birth below)

CRISP, JAMES EDGAR KING -
GRO Reference: 1859 S Quarter in SAMFORD Volume 04A Page 528

I'm still not understanding!

Why would Ann leave her son James Edgar Crisp with her Gran, and marry James to live with another child James A Mead??

First name(s) James Edgar King
Last name Crisp
Baptism year 1859
Baptism date 17 Aug 1859
Parish St Mary
Place Raydon
Father's first name(s) -
Mother's first name(s) Ann
Relationship son
Residence Raydon
County Suffolk

No idea on that AQ...

Chris :)

I don't think it's right- That Ann is still listed as Crisp on the 1901 census living with her son James.

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
21, Stockland Road, Romford, Essex, England

James Crisp Head Single Male 40 1861 House Painter & Paperhanger Raydon, Suffolk,
Annie Crisp Mother Widow Female 59 1842 - Raydon, Suffolk,
Elsie F Carter Adopted Daughter Single Female 14 1887 - Marylebone, Middlesex,