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Hello all, just dropping in to let you know that the marriage certificate for Charles and Mary Ellen has arrived. His father is Philip Henry Martin. Looks like you were right PricklyHolly! Can't wait to see where it all goes from here :-D

I am just popping this information on here in case we need to go back to it.

On the 1871 census, it states Philip H Martin was born in 1848 Faye, Cornwall.

I am wondering if "Faye" should actually read "Fowey"

The registration district of Lanteglos by Fowey, Cornwall...is Liskeard.

???

Philip Henry Martin in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Birth Index, 1837-1915
Name: Philip Henry Martin
Registration Year: 1846
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration district: Liskeard
Inferred County: Cornwall
Volume: 9
Page: 170

Philip Henry Martin in the England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Name: Philip Henry Martin
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 24 May 1846
Baptism Place: Lanteglos-by-Fowey, Cornwall, England
Father: Philip Martin
Mother: Lucy

MARTIN, PHILIP HENRY QUINAL Order
GRO Reference: 1846 J Quarter in LISKEARD Volume 09 Page 170

Lucy Quinel in the England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973
Name: Lucy Quinel
Gender: Female
Marriage Date: 19 Jun 1830
Marriage Place: Lanteglos-By-Fowey, Cornwall, England
Spouse: Philip Henry Martin


1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Higher Pont, Lanteglos by Fowey, Liskeard, Cornwall, England

Lucy Martin Head Married Female 45 1806 Labourers Wife Lanteglos, Cornwall, England
Emma Martin Daughter - Female 9 1842 - Lanteglos, Cornwall, England
Henry Martin ******* Son - Male 5 1846 - Lanteglos, Cornwall, England
Charles Martin Son - Male 3 1848 - Lanteglos, Cornwall, England


1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Paper Mills, Lantegloss, Liskeard, Cornwall, England

Philip Martin Male 40 1801 Cornwall, England
Lucy Martin Female 35 1806 Cornwall, England
Louisa Martin Female 10 1831 Cornwall, England
John Martin Male 8 1833 Cornwall, England
William Martin Male 6 1835 Cornwall, England
Elizabeth Martin Female 5 1836 Cornwall, England

Lucy appears as Louisa on the 1861 census....


1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Higher Lux Street, Liskeard, Cornwall, England

Louisa Martin Head Widow Female 49 1812 Nurse Lanteglos, Cornwall, England
William Martin Son Unmarried Male 27 1834 Labourer Lanteglos, Cornwall, England
Henry Martin ***** Son Unmarried Male 27 1834 Foundry Man Lanteglos, Cornwall, England
Charles Martin Son - Male 14 1847 Errand Boy Lanteglos, Cornwall, England

Peter Henry Martin was living at....

32, Union Street, North Shields, Tynemouth, Northumberland, England.......on the 1901 census.

I do hope i am on the right track!

Prickles.

:-)

(another, for below)

Chris :)

MARTIN, PHILIP HENRY (HAMILL)
GRO Reference: 1900 D Quarter in TYNEMOUTH Volume 10B Page 245


Deaths Sep 1907 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------------------
MARTIN Philip Henry 6 Tynemouth 10b 116


17 August 1908 - Shields Daily News - Tynemouth, Tyne and Wear, England

IN MEMORIAM
In loving memory of Philip Henry, beloved son of Charles and Mary Ellen Martin, who died Aug. 17th, 1907, aged 6 years and 10 months.

The Angels took my child away,
and why I should repine;
for Jesus in his bosom wears,
the bud that once was mine.

Ever Remembered,

By his father, mother, and brothers, Union Street, North Shields.

GreyGhost, ah I see - thank you for clearing that up, I had assumed all of the children would have been his but now I think about it, it doesn't seem very likely.

It never ceases to amaze me how Chris always manages to find all the "Juicy bits"

:-D

oh goodness!!!! Was this family ever out of the newspapers?! haha. 'Attempting to murder his wife' and 'bad characters' - wow!!! Were did you find this? Is it on a certain website? Thank you so much Chris, how interesting - can't wait to find out if they are Charles' parents!

edit: sorry I just saw the link you have posted, replied to your comment in haste!

Edward Walter MARTIN. Registered as Martin mmn Hammill.

Any child registered would have the surname of his/her Mother's husband - presumed to be the Father. So none/some or all of the children might not be Charles Senior's. So he could have disappeared at any time after the marriage ......(she says with a wry grin). Many a child was registered long after the "Father" had died.

PH seems to be working on one of her conspiracy theories.....
and ChrisHo as per, finding all the juicy bits (sorry - items of interest).

(if so, think you need to get subscription for Newspapers, lol)

Chris :)

09 August 1880 - Sunderland Daily Echo and Shipping Gazette - Sunderland

Henry Martin was charged at the Castle Eden Petty Sessions on Saturday, before the Rev. J. Burdon, with attempting to murder his wife, Nicholasina Martin, at Haswell, on the 2nd inst.


23 September 1887 - Shields Daily Gazette - South Shields, Tyne and

THEFT OF A WATCH AT NORTH SHIELDS.
At the North Shields Police Court to-day, before Joseph Spence and John Robson, Louisa Keating, Nicholasina Martin, and Margaret Chilton, bad characters, were charged on remand with stealing a gold watch and albert...


14 January 1888 - Shields Daily Gazette - South Shields, Tyne and Wear

TO-DAY'S POLICE NEWS.
ALLEGED THEFT.
Nicholasina Martin was charged with having stolen a shirt, value 6s...


http://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/

(or Find My Past, Genes, subscription needed for all)

Ahh I must admit that it does seem very likely that that's him, I guess we'll know for sure where the marriage certificate comes. It definitely does make sense with Charles' son having the same name as the father on the census.

Just in case..........


Charles Martin in the 1881 England Census
Name: Charles Martin
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1869
Relationship to Head: Grandson
Mother: Nicholasina Martin
Gender: Male
Where born: Benton, Northumberland, England
Civil Parish: Wallsend
County/Island: Northumberland
Country: England
Street address: 43
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Occupation: Scholar
Registration district: Tynemouth
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 5072
Folio: 87
Page Number: 45
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary A. Atkinson 75 (Widow)
Nicholasina Martin 32 (Daughter....Married) Percy Main, Northumberland
Mary Martin 13
Charles Martin 12
John Martin 10
William Martin 5
Emma J. Martin 3



MARTIN, MARY LOUISA ATKINSON
GRO Reference: 1867 J Quarter in TYNEMOUTH Volume 10B Page 227


Marriages Sep 1890 (>99%)
ARMSTRONG Charles Frederick Tynemouth 10b 352
Martin Mary Louisa Tynemouth 10b 352

Nicholasina remarried in 1890.....

Marriages Dec 1890 (>99%)
Cremen Bartholomew Joseph Tynemouth 10b 395
Martin Nicholasina Tynemouth 10b 395

I will keep my eye out for the details from the marriage cert Kelsey.

As i posted earlier, it's quite complicated but........if my hunch is correct, this is possibly Charles on the 1871 census...........

??

Charles Martin in the 1871 England Census
Name: Charles Martin
Age: 2
Estimated birth year: abt 1869
Relation: Son
Father's name: Philip A Martin
Mother's name: Nicholasina Martin
Gender: Male
Where born: Cramlington, Northumberland, England
Civil Parish: Haswell
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
Town: Haswell Lane
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Registration district: Easington
Sub-registration district: Easington
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Household schedule number: 203
Piece: 4971
Folio: 65
Page Number: 42
Household Members:
Name Age
Philip A Martin 23 (Coal Miner)
Nicholasina Martin 22 (Percy Main, Northumberland)
Mary L Martin 3
Charles Martin 2
John Martin 3 Months

The second initial of "A" for father Philip, looks more like an "H" on the image.

(Charles named one of his sons Philip Henry)

"Philip" married "Nicholasina" with the name of "Henry"

Marriages Jun 1867 (>99%)
ATKINSON Nicholasena Tynemouth 10b 334
MARTIN Henry Tynemouth 10b 334

I could go on but, my hunch might be incorrect.

Best wait for the details of the marriage cert.

Prickles. x

Thank you PricklyHolly, that does look like a pretty good hunch. I will order the marriage certificate tonight and let you all know what it says when it arrives in a few weeks.

I have a hunch regarding the birth of Charles Martin......

??

MARTIN, CHARLES ATKINSON Order
GRO Reference: 1868 D Quarter in TYNEMOUTH Volume 10B Page 224

It's all quite complicated.

The best way to go would be to purchase a copy of the marriage certificate for information regarding his father.


Marriages Sep 1892 (>99%)
HAMEL Mary Ellen Tynemouth 10b 329
Martin Charles Tynemouth 10b 329

Thank you all for your help. Yes the family story was that 3 went in search and never returned but I do agree that it definitely looks like it as only Charles - stories must have just been exaggerated over the years. Yes, that is the correct Peter Martin (my grandfather's father) he married Phyllis Brown and had several children.

So as Edward had the surname Walter, Charles must have disappeared sometime between Edward being conceived and the 1911 census - is that correct?

How interesting to learn about William, you can't help but feel for poor Mary Ellen.

There are 4 "boys" with their Mother in 1911. Another 3 have already died and I can't pinpoint Charles W. So, although 8 children were born, there was never 8 alive at the same time. All boys, Mum must have felt very outnumbered!!

IF all the children were actually Charles Senior's then he didn't leave until after Edward Walter was conceived. If he left before, then any children born after that would still have their Mother's married name.

You say the family story has it that 3 of the boys went in search of him and never returned. Of the 5 -

1. William died 1918 as posted by ChrisHo
----------------------------------------

2. Edward Walter - Prickly Holly posted a death for him in Tynemouth 1953 and the 1939 with his Mum
----------------------------------------

3. A Francis Septimus Martin (can't imagine there are too many of them) dies in Northampton 1979, b 1904
First name(s) FRANCIS SEPTIMUS
Last name MARTIN
Gender Male
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1904
Age -
Death quarter 3
Death year 1979
District Northampton
County Northamptonshire
Volume 7
Page 2202

Probate - of 15 Honiton Gardens Corby Northants died 20 September 1979 Probate Ipswich 14 December - the link -https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=martin&yearOfDeath=1979&page=9#calendar

---------------------------------------
4. Peter - only 1 Peter Martin b Northumberland c 1897. That was Q3 Tynemouth RD as posted above. There is a Q1 1968 death aged 70 in Tynemouth. Would be the right age. ?? is this him

Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page
Deaths Mar 1968 (>99%)
MARTIN PETER 70 TYNEMOUTH 1B 669

Possibly him in 1939 (DOB would fit a Q3 birth reg) (married a Phyllis Brown 1921)
Martin Household (5 People)
7 Prudhoe Street , Tynemouth C.B., Northumberland, England

FIRST NAME(S) LAST NAME(S) DOB SEX OCCUPATION MARITAL STATUS SCHEDULE SCHEDULE SUB NUMBER
Peter Martin 07 Aug 1897 Male Shipyard Labourer Married 30 1
Phyllis Martin 20 Dec 1899 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 30 2
Peter H Martin 27 Jan 1921 Male Apprentice Bricklayer Single 30 3
Ellen Martin 15 Aug 1922 Female Shop Assistant Single 30 4
William Martin 30 Jun 1924 Male Errand Boy Single 30 5

---------------------------------
Which only leaves the elusive Charles - unless they went but did return.

????


1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription

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Print transcription View image
First name(s) Charles
Last name Martin
Relationship Boatswain Crew
Marital status Married
Gender Male
Age 31
Birth year 1870
Occupation Boatswain
Birth town Cramlington
Birth town as transcribed CRAMLINGTON
Birth county Northumberland
Birth county as transcribed NORTHUMBERLAND
Birth place England
Birth place other as transcribed -
Other household member first name(s) -
Other household member last name -
Street -
Town -
Parish Hartlepool
City -
Country England
County Durham
Vessel name S Constantine
Municipal ward North
Registration district Hartlepool
Archive reference RG13
Piece number 4636
Folio 128
Page -
Record set 1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Category Census, land & surveys
Subcategory Census
Collections from Great Britain

(c) brightsolid online publishing ltd

????


England & Wales Merchant Navy Crew Lists 1861-1913 Transcription

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Print transcription
First name(s) Charles
Last name Martin
Birth year 1868
Birth place Cramlington
Birth country England
Year 1891
Role Able Seaman
Vessel name Athelstane
From date 29 Jul 1891
To date 12 Oct 1891
Previous port S Shields
Previous vessel Buteshire
Vessel official number 65436
Vessel registration port North Shields
Port registry year 1872
Port registry number 46
Vessel type Steam
Gross tonnage 1104
Net tonnage 684
Log book N
Master's first name(s) John
Master's last name Breman
Owner's first name(s) H E P
Owner's last name Adamson
Owner's town Newcastle Upon Tyne
Owner's county Northumberland
Owner's country England
Record source The National Archives
Document type Eng 1
Archive reference BT99/1689
Record set England & Wales Merchant Navy Crew Lists 1861-1913
Category Education & work
Subcategory Merchant navy & maritime
Collections from Great Britain

Peter Owens on behalf of the Crew List Index Project and other contributors

copyright Peter Owens on behalf of the Crew List Index Project and other contributors

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Attach to Family Tree

Charles Martin
England and Wales Marriage Registration Index
Name
Charles Martin
Event Type
Marriage
Registration Quarter
Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration Year
1892
Registration District
Tynemouth
County
Northumberland
Event Place
Tynemouth, Northumberland, England
Volume
10B
Page
329
Line Number
212
 
Charles Martin probably married one of the following people
Name
James Allerton
Name
Mary Ellen Hamel
Name
Margaret Hardy

I see you have Mary Ellen's birth as 5th April 1872

Her dob appears as 25th April 1871 on the 1939 Register.

Her son Edward Walter is with her.......

Mary E Martin on the 1939 Register

Martin Household (2 People) 30 Sibthorpe Street , Tynemouth C.B., Northumberland, England

Mary E Martin 25 Apr 1871 Female Unpaid Household Duties Widowed 85 1
Edward W Martin 06 May 1910 Male House & Ship Painter Single 85 2

Ooops! .......Already posted by Maddie


Edward W Martin in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Edward W Martin
Birth Date: abt 1911
Date of Registration: Mar 1953
Age at Death: 42
Registration district: Tynemouth
Inferred County: Northumberland
Volume: 1b
Page: 552